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13 months ago ::
May 29, 2012 - 11:53PM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2012
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I personally feel that THIS is the reason Wizards is following Paizo with the more open playtesting. Cybrim Presents: The Heart of D&D How would Wizards compete in today's market if their competitors know what works for larger groups of people if they kept everything in closed doors? Look at 4E all of the books were smaller than their previous incarnations, including less adventure information and more locked-in class information, 4E was a tabletop MMO it was incredibly easy to respec to get the damage dealing min/max character that seemed expected of you. In old school D&D you would play a weak character and survive by the skin of your teeth, if a DM was merciful you'd survive if not you had an emotional spiral watching that 2HP wizard die after almost making it to level 2. The MMO culture is vastly different from D&D as in D&D you work together to accompish a goal and in an MMO it is always about your DPS, everyone having the same "legendary" piece of equipment and everyone paying $15 every month after an initial purchase of $60 or more just to find that they are in a chat room discussing how the game became boring and "end game content" is worth paying the $15 for even though there is really no more progression or customization. D&D is completely different after max level your DM may create new rules for advancement, he/she will make their own stories/locations/NPCs, older players help newer and returning players to grasp what is going on and involve them in their stories, if they succeed they'll do it together and form bonds of friendship, if the host forgets the snacks the party will die horribly. Many authors were inspired to write fantasy based off of their play sessions even Andre Norton wrote a book based off a D&D game she played "Quag Keep". Unlike games with too much money, too many developers, a lack of content and a bunch of people on the message boards unhappy with "expansion content" DMs and players have a say in everything that goes on in D&D.
Moderated by
ORC_Narada
on May 30, 2012 - 01:12AM
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:04AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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See, this? This is a wall-of-text. It has no paragraph breaks, and desperately needs them. A lot. To Death. 
Feedback Disclaimer
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)My 4e Projects
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:22AM
#3
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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Also, you may want to watch the comparisons of 4E to an MMO... Some edition warriors may take great offense to that... moreover, it smells a little of "edition war speech" which is generally frowned upon. Doesn't bother me; to each his/her own, just saying.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:27AM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2009
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Soooo...to you, the heart of D&D is hating 4e and comparing it to an MMO?
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool. | Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner | |
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:55AM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2012
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What I meant was that D&D has an MMO which charged for a while and even though it is mechanically similar to it's origin it is spiritually different. 4E to me felt min/maxing in nature. But the spirit of the game is the enjoyment of playing it with people you will better get to know through playing it.
The reason I posted this is entirely because D&D started the RPG genre and game makers turned those into videogames and from there the MMO was born, but due to the ladder of greatness invloved in every mmo experienced players typically dispise new players, most of the time when I played Tabletop D&D we NEVER had that problem, I tried to tell my friends who were into MMOs the reason they can enjoy them today was because of D&D, because they were puzzled by how "such and awesome game can exist" (refering to WOW)...
We started playing D&D 3.5 over a period of weeks (I suck as DM...) but everyone had a good time and talked about getting 4E, one guy spent $100+ just to get the required materials for the DM they shared the PHB and everything went from one battle to the next, and my players asked me why things were going so fast and I think the miniatures is what did it in for us, all of the things you didn't see before seemed to make it more believable. In MMOs you see "everything" or a representation of it, in D&D 3x the monster manuals had a first hand visual discription of a creature in 4E that discriptive text that added so much flavor to the world was replaced by facts that would have been located later on after the creature's stats in 3x.
"The swirling black ooze floating no more than a foot off of the ground suddenly foams and jolts toward you." -things like that.
In the AD&D 1E DMG Gary talked about encounters in different terrain, henchmen, gaining your own land after clearing the creatures from surrounding lands, turning your adventurer into a lord or lady and making room for new adventurers in your modified world when your old characters retired after all they had everything they wanted now it is up to new adventurers. That is what I didn't get around to saying.
PS Sorry for my initial wall of text, this is not an attack on any edition, but the folks at wizard are trying to piece together the most widely accepted rules and ideas then modulate into and onto them, to maximize their profits and reputation.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:56AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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The Heart of D&D is still beatin'!
Man I hate that song...
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 12:59AM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2012
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that song was terrible.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 1:08AM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2009
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So, you did a bit better that time, but you still spent a lot of time describing why you don't like MMOs and sprinkling in various personal experiences and things you've read that seem, well, sort of disorganized and disconnected. Why don't we try this:
Tell me what you love about D&D. Don't tell me about anything that isn't D&D, and don't tell me about stuff you don't like. Tell me what makes D&D great, to you. About what will keep you coming back week after week. That would make a good "The Heart of D&D" thread.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool. | Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner | |
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 1:14AM
#9
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I've removed content from this thread because masked vulgarity is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
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13 months ago ::
May 30, 2012 - 10:21AM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2012
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What I love about D&D.
Working together to solve an issue you'd get killed doing alone! Like the time my Monk punched a wall to exclaim distaste and set off a trap in the process. Then Sheigo my friend's halfling ranger jumped in front of me and sliced through all of the arrows to protect the party.
Getting jumped at night! This is self expanitory but when your Gnome Barbarian captures live goblins and tortures them so the rest of the party can't go back to sleep but they find out about a horde of treasure nearby it was worth it.
The nemesis' dark and evil plans: My friend was playing a half-orc Paladin named Jon Von Butu that was getting stalked by a sucubus, they had a fight, she escaped and then bore him a tiefling child, he cried but they got married because it was the "right thing to do."
When a Human Fighter gets charmed by a dragon, knocking off his friends to meet the dragon face to face (failed saves and mages are out of spells) gets impaled trying to give the dragon a hug.
Or when you tick off some orphans with your group of human purists preaching about how their God is the only God ect ect, the orphans turn out to be Gnomes and give you gifts that turn out to be live grenades!
Or the time your monk kicks a lich in the gut and comes out the other end!
Has anyone ever played "secrets?" Your DM gives each player a list of tasks they must complete without getting caught by other players when in certain areas, the DM takes each player off to the side when it is their turn and keeps a record of the events. Since no one wants to get caught or really knows their companions they are told they each need to find a different location in order to maintain their privacy and accomplish their individual goals. The locations are up to the DM to say exist to hang out at, if a specific player is where the player with the task is 3 times that player is "caught" and everyone knows what he is up to, he and his group is then hunted by whoever sent him out for the task. Eventually the players may go after the individuals or organizations that sent them to do the dirtywork or charismatically come to a solution with them.
Secrets is really fun because it's a game of deceiving eachother as well as townsfolk and eventually getting revenge, freedom or a large pay-off. It is best used when your characters are being introduced to eachother.
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