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May 28, 2012 -- 8:11AM, greatfrito wrote:

Cleric: Gets magic, divine power, etc, etc.
Rogue: Gets shemes, tricks, sneak attack, etc.
Wizard: Gets magic, magic, and more magic.
Fighter: Gets what every other character gets, regardless of class.  Only, y'know, more of it.

And still, the Fighter doesn't even look like it's being designed as a part of the same game.  It's coming from some kind of "Build your own class" game.  Or, no wait, "Build your own class (and get +2 damage)" game.

Even then, the rogue schemes are just an extra background. This whole design wreaks of "martial classes can't have nice things". It's 3e design all over again.

May 28, 2012 -- 10:10AM, Dranack wrote:

Samrin - Did you notice that Wizard spells don't scale with level? That completely solves the quadratic wizard problem - wizards are now linear. They have also stated multiple times that fighters will get new stuff. They also have access to themes that other classes have. If they can get the same stuff as the wizard or thief(the nice stuff), wouldn't they then(logically) have nice stuff, too?

There have never been spells that are effective without scaling? lol. 

May 28, 2012 -- 10:10AM, Dranack wrote:

Samrin - Did you notice that Wizard spells don't scale with level? That completely solves the quadratic wizard problem - wizards are now linear. They have also stated multiple times that fighters will get new stuff. They also have access to themes that other classes have. If they can get the same stuff as the wizard or thief(the nice stuff), wouldn't they then(logically) have nice stuff, too?

They'd basically have to redesign the class from the ground up to achieve this, though. I'm just going by what I'm seeing. The fighter isn't even a playable class compared to the cleric and wizard (who have tons of options). Even if they add in maneuvers in stuff, it will probably be with feats. That just means the fighter spends a feat tax to have roughly the same amount of choice that the spellcasters get by default. 

Nothing I see impresses me. This all basically looks like 1e with feats. If they introduced the wizard as a straight up blaster with no choice and more to come later, I would be more optimistic about it. As it is, it looks like they had a clear design goal: Wizards rule, Fighters drool. This fighter is extremely adept at drooling.

May 28, 2012 -- 10:27AM, Maxperson wrote:

May 28, 2012 -- 10:25AM, Samrin wrote:

May 28, 2012 -- 10:10AM, Dranack wrote:

Samrin - Did you notice that Wizard spells don't scale with level? That completely solves the quadratic wizard problem - wizards are now linear. They have also stated multiple times that fighters will get new stuff. They also have access to themes that other classes have. If they can get the same stuff as the wizard or thief(the nice stuff), wouldn't they then(logically) have nice stuff, too?

They'd basically have to redesign the class from the ground up to achieve this, though. I'm just going by what I'm seeing. The fighter isn't even a playable class compared to the cleric and wizard (who have tons of options). Even if they add in maneuvers in stuff, it will probably be with feats. That just means the fighter spends a feat tax to have roughly the same amount of choice that the spellcasters get by default.

Not if they go back and draw on 3e and give fighters bonus feats to buy them with.  Then there is no tax at all for it.  I'm betting this is what will happen. 

It would be better if it wasn't a feat. If their only purpose is to buy maneuvers. Then you have feats that aren't feats. All they need to do is look at the Warblade for a good basis as a way to design it.