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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 2:34AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2003
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This is a really good idea. I mean, I always wondered why they ever printed so many spells for the wizard and cleric, when they only ever needed one. All these rules about when you can use spells and how many you can use, it's all just holding back the creativity. I mean, once the spell desciption is written out, that's the end of it. No improvisation, no trying to do something that isn't a spell.
I really feel like this would be a revolution for clerics and wizards. They'd finally have a chance to be characters instead of just walking spell lists. We've finally found where the roleplaying went, scotsmen! It was ground up and used as ink for spell descriptions. If we go through with this genius plan, we'll finally be playing a roleplaying game again, rather than just Wizard101, the Pen and Paper Edition.
ROFLMAO! I can't love this post enough. It's just full of win and awesome.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 2:38AM
#32
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2012
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Again, honestly wouldn't be suprised if you don't see it before this edition truly begins. It isn't a bad idea, a simple ranged magic user to give people the idea. Wet their feet.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 3:38AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2004
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The main target of this discussion, though, is the concept that a Fighter that just makes melee basic attacks all day long is perfectly acceptable, whereas a Wizard has to have all these spells that do different things and whatnot.
What we see time and time again is people saying, "Oh, simple Fighters are great! And they're so roleplayey because you can improvise!" The OP has its roots in another thread where someone postulated that if the Wizard was "Fighterized" and made into a pure dice-and-damage pew-pew machine, that there would be equal amounts of roleplaying, because there are the same amount of class features.
So, if all a Fighter does all day long is roll a d20, add 6, do 3 damage on a miss, and 2d6+7 damage on a hit.....why shouldn't the equivilent Wizard just do 1d6+INT autodamage all day long?
Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade." "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, "But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling Defenders: We ARE the wall! I've replaced the previous Edition Warring line in my sig with this one, because honestly, everybody needs to work together to make the D&D they like without trampling on somebody else's D&D. Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e! I am a hero, not a chump.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 3:45AM
#34
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Your solution doesn't make sense. The simple wizard design should be forced on everyone to encourage improvisation. Who needs complicated rules for any other spells when you can improvise with your magic missile? Think about all the possibilities: you can cast magic missile at tables to tip them over, or use it to hit an enemy's foot to trip them, or even cast it at the darkness in a cave. The possibilities are endless!
Look at how popular the 5e fighter is with only a single basic attack. Don't you think we should also force the wizard to have only one attack (magic missile) to spread the fun around?
I agree that fighters with more options would be nice. You aren't being funny.
I know I shouldn't say this, but it is a little funny actually 
Ed_Warlord, on what it takes to make a thread work: I think for it to be really constructive, everyone would have to be honest with each other, and with themselves. Quotation of the moment
Show
Areleth: How does this help the problems we have with Fighters? Do you think that every time I thought I was playing D&D what I was actually doing was slamming my head in a car door and that if you just explain how to play without doing that then I'll finally enjoy the game?
Quotation of ALL moments
Show
TD: That's why they put me on the front of every book. This is the dungeon, and I am the dragon.
A word of warning though: I'm totally not a level appropriate encounter.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 3:45AM
#35
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Exactly, there is an issue with the characters in the playtest, but it's not with the Fighter!
The problem is that the Cleric and Wizard especially, but also the Rogue to some extent (though not nearly so badly) are overburdened with unecessarily complex mechanics which are getting in the way of role playing.
Clearly there should be equal opportunities for players of arcane and divine concepts to enjoy free form and imaginative play without being stifled by the spell lists and class abilities they are currently having foistered on them.
Every player should have the same opportunity to improvise that the Fighter players are being given!
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 4:11AM
#36
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2009
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I'm having a hard time telling who legitimitely thinks this is a good idea and who's only pretending to support it to take swipes at the philosophy that led to the 5e fighter being so bad.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 4:38AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2007
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How about giving some constructive feed back on what abilities/class features eyou people would like to see fighters get instead of sarcasm and vague statements about how you don't like that fighters swings swords? Right now fighter has best HPs, best ac, best damage out point, only class that can action point, can cleave, and auto damages even if it misses with its massive damage attack. If these opens are not excitinexciting us what would be? We know a second wind is in the works for the fighter and rules for dual wielding and archery are sure to be on the way, and I bet push powers and controlling powers are too. (see guardian for example).
And fighters can take magic missle if they want to. So if you really think magic missile is so much better at damaging than a great ax, takes magic user theme and pick up magic missile. Nw you have magic missile with better HPs and ac than the wizard!
But if it's just a matter of fighter being boring, tell us what would make him not boring, and try to be specific. "I want push powers and trip powers" is not that helpful. We all know that such things are in demand and coming, so try to be a bit more specific about want abilities should you think would make fighters more fun to play. This will help the game developers a lot more than sarcasm and whining, and might give people who think fighters are good enough already something new to think about. Maybe they will say "hey, your right, that would be a cool ability!" otherwise this topic is dead air as far as input for the developers goes.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 4:46AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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That's not the point of this Moes, the point is gathering support for the simple Wizard class for those that want the caster flavor without the paperwork.
I'm not joking. Its a good idea.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 5:00AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I too would love to see a simple bare bones caster. Prefferably one divine and one arcane.
The divine could have these three basic things.
Melee attack, bless (gives someone/everyone an advantage on their next d20 roll), and a simple heal function. And say the heal/bless can only be used on one person as a move, but if you make it a fullround action you can use it on everyone. But then you forego your attack.
The arcaner, should be dealing some magic ranged attack damage. And then have the ability like previously pointed out to switch between elemental attacks that does different things. Frost = slowed if failed check and stuff like that:
Grant the diviner decent armor and the arcaner some mage armor bonus and of you go.
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13 months ago ::
May 28, 2012 - 5:09AM
#40
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How about giving some constructive feed back on what abilities/class features eyou people would like to see fighters get instead of sarcasm and vague statements about how you don't like that fighters swings swords?
I dunno, this seems like a great multi-purpose thread...
1) Some people actually do want a simple caster or two. Why not see what features sound appealing?
2) Maybe, by imagining a wizard with one spell, some other people will stop saying that featureless classes are fine because of their vast RP potential. Probably they'll instead dismiss this as trolling, but maybe someone will say, "Wow, yeah, the lack of defined options would leave my character mostly in the DM's hands. I could see that leading to a lack of variety and a lack of investment on my part."
3) It's pretty funny.
All that said, I think it's way too early to freak out that fighters have nothing to do. If future playtests reveal that there really isn't any depth to the non-magical classes, then I will promptly hit the panic button. Still, I like this thread as long as I don't read it as frantic campaigning to save the fighter.
Ed_Warlord, on what it takes to make a thread work: I think for it to be really constructive, everyone would have to be honest with each other, and with themselves. Quotation of the moment
Show
Areleth: How does this help the problems we have with Fighters? Do you think that every time I thought I was playing D&D what I was actually doing was slamming my head in a car door and that if you just explain how to play without doing that then I'll finally enjoy the game?
Quotation of ALL moments
Show
TD: That's why they put me on the front of every book. This is the dungeon, and I am the dragon.
A word of warning though: I'm totally not a level appropriate encounter.
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