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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 4:50AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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Page 14 of the How To Play document explains that an invisible creature "can still be detected by the noise it makes, the tracks it leaves, or the shadow it casts." I really hope that I'm not the only person that thinks that's completely absurd. Yeah, there are a few instances in fiction where an invisible or supernaturally disguised creature can be identified by its shadow, but those are too few and far between to be part of the general rules for invisibility. Those things should be the exceptions.
I promised myself, though, that I wouldn't make any negative posts here without also adding something positive dealing with the same subject. Here, it will be the Charmed condition. I like the Charmed condition. I think that it's very cute thematically, and I think that it's good for it to be mechanically defined generally like this rather than specifically. The simplicity of it definitely doesn't hurt either. You could say that I think the charmed condition is... charming.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 9:17AM
#2
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Page 14 of the How To Play document explains that an invisible creature "can still be detected by the noise it makes, the tracks it leaves, or the shadow it casts." I really hope that I'm not the only person that thinks that's completely absurd. Yeah, there are a few instances in fiction where an invisible or supernaturally disguised creature can be identified by its shadow, but those are too few and far between to be part of the general rules for invisibility. Those things should be the exceptions.
I promised myself, though, that I wouldn't make any negative posts here without also adding something positive dealing with the same subject. Here, it will be the Charmed condition. I like the Charmed condition. I think that it's very cute thematically, and I think that it's good for it to be mechanically defined generally like this rather than specifically. The simplicity of it definitely doesn't hurt either. You could say that I think the charmed condition is... charming.
I agree with that, actually.
In some editions, being invisible was over the top. You couldn't discern it without magic. I don't believe you can just say "I spot the shadow", I think that's justification for a Wisdom/Perception check. (If a player told me that, though, I'd give them a +2 bonus to that specific check.)
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 9:57AM
#3
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Oh yea, I forgot about that. Agreed, shadows come from getting in the way of light, which invisibility doesn't.
Although, the intent of it is actually very good IMO. I forget if I mentioned this before or not, but sight needs to not have as big of an impact on D&D characters as it does on us. Invisibility, darkness, and damaging eyes is just too easy to achieve. And it does seem like they're trying to keep you in a fight without sight, which is awesome. But shadows being casted by invisible things is a bit too much. Wisdom check to find them, we get it.
What I think the Wilder Design Goals should be. Psionic Homebrew Mk2! Changed core, Focus Points, Psionic Potentials, stuff! Very basic core stuff. :P Homebrew Psionics blog posts archive: Spoiler:
Show
UPDATED Dec/18/2012: BAMN! Random update with a modest amount of hard rules for Animal Affinity, Telepathy, and Telekinesis. ADDED: Discipline Burn and more "soft" ideas.
Dec/13/2012: Small Psionics Homebrew Update, now that I'm done with Finals.
Really old.
Nov/02/2012:
I'm working on a homebrew Wilder, and so a homebrew Psionics system. Here's a 3 part post with info on where I am in the design process.
Part 1, Hard rules/example soulknife discipline: Link.
Part 2, Basic ideas/goals on basic numbers and classes: Link.
Part 3, Direction/ideas I want to take with specific disciplines: Link.:3
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 10:07AM
#4
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Actually, an invisibility effect would be created by light bending around you. Light bouncing back from the object creates the image you see. So if light was bouncing back, which creates the shadow, you would at least "see" something. So my argument is + for no shadow.
My two copper.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 10:12AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
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We are talking about magic here, so I wouldn't be too hung up on the physics of the shadow thing. I think it is kind of cute. But it does suggest that an invisible creature standing in the middle of a sunny beach would be pretty hard to miss, and that's obviously not the intent. Probably better to stick with "distortions in the air" or the like.
Side note: do creatures using darkvision see shadows?
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 10:14AM
#6
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2012
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It depends on how the invisibility works.
Most illusions don't bend light but create a vision of what is false. The light isn't going through the invisible creature--the creature is covered by an illusion of what's behind it.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 10:19AM
#7
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Well if the image is jut false then you would cast a shadow. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean lights not hitting it.
My two copper.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 11:20AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 18, 2012
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It's impossible to say if invisibility should or shouldn't cast a shadow, because it's magic. I would be more in favor of a "distortions in the air" approach, though.
I love you guys.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 11:34AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2012
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It's pretty likely that if this version of invisibility casts shadows that there will be a more powerful invisibility spell that doesn't. This one is just lower level, perhaps.
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13 months ago ::
May 27, 2012 - 11:45AM
#10
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We are talking about magic here, so I wouldn't be too hung up on the physics of the shadow thing...
Unfortunately, I can't take "it's magic" as an answer that easily. :c (Or at least I don't want to.) Light being rearranged to act as if you weren't there is light being rearranged to act as if you weren't there. I don't care if the rule stays in or not, but it will be 5 words I ignore.
Bending light around you would still make it hit the ground/wall where your shadow would of been, and thus you wouldn't create a shadow.
For the creating a vision idea (which actually sounds right), if it's projecting light in the exact brightness/hue/whatever as what would of gone through you, that light would be projected onto the wall / floor behind you. Thus that area would still be lit up like the surface around it, instead of being a shadow.
Unless invisibility directly lies to your mind or is only half invisibility like the Predator's cloaking thingy, it won't make any shadow. If light will hit your eyes as if they weren't there, then the light will hit all surfaces as if they weren't there.
What I think the Wilder Design Goals should be. Psionic Homebrew Mk2! Changed core, Focus Points, Psionic Potentials, stuff! Very basic core stuff. :P Homebrew Psionics blog posts archive: Spoiler:
Show
UPDATED Dec/18/2012: BAMN! Random update with a modest amount of hard rules for Animal Affinity, Telepathy, and Telekinesis. ADDED: Discipline Burn and more "soft" ideas.
Dec/13/2012: Small Psionics Homebrew Update, now that I'm done with Finals.
Really old.
Nov/02/2012:
I'm working on a homebrew Wilder, and so a homebrew Psionics system. Here's a 3 part post with info on where I am in the design process.
Part 1, Hard rules/example soulknife discipline: Link.
Part 2, Basic ideas/goals on basic numbers and classes: Link.
Part 3, Direction/ideas I want to take with specific disciplines: Link.:3
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