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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 3:42AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2010
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Despite the promise to serve fans of ALL D&D editions the playtest rules (so far) offer nothing what made 4E great:
* No Opportunity Attacks (AoO) (which also work fine in ToM games)
* No flanking
* No interesting forced movement options for a dynamic battlefield
* Measurements in feet instead of international squares (WotC, just add a square number behind every feet!)
* No interesting combat options you could envoke "once in a while" (not to say "encounter power")
I'm disappointed that we didn't get an alternative rules modul for grid combat as promised to playtest with.
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 4:07AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2008
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1) They are not testing different modules at this time just the basic bare bones game.
2) Divide feet by 5 theres your squares (although diagonal movement wouldnt work the same)
3) Don't think encounter powers are coming back
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 4:13AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 31, 2007
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We 4E fans are waiting anxiously for the modules that add in more options for martial classes to make the game more tactical in nature. It's hardly a slap in the face anymore than it's a slap in the face to druid, ranger, paladin, bard, sorcerer, etc. lovers that their favored class isn't included in the barebones test.
We're not testing those options yet. We're testing the basic game. Our time will come later.
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 4:29AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Dec 23, 2007
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I agree that our time will come, but I think it's important to make our voice heard now. That's what the playtest is all about. After all, if 4e fans don't speak up and wait for their features, modules, ect. to appear, they might never show up. And it's not a bad idea to have some 4e ideas in the core concept. If it's a game that combines all the editions and is going to appeal to everyone, every edition needs to be part of the bare bones and DNA of the system from the ground up. I see some good 4e representation in the packet with at-will spells and full healing after a long rest, but if Cypher doesn't see enough he should be able to speak up.
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 4:34AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2008
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As much as I otherwise love 4th, I'm kind of glad they got rid of the default assumption that everyone is using a grid and minis. Not everyone wants to use them or has access to them.
The fact is the heavy tactical nature of 4th just doesn't work as well without the grid. Should they eventually release an optional rules module focused on using a grid for tactical combat? Yes, definitely. I can almost guarantee it is in the works and we'll see it someday. Should the rules for such combat be forced down everyone's throats as part of the core rules? NO. D&D Next is about simplifying and streamlining the rules for the most focused and iconic D&D experience possible. Making everyone use a grid defeats that purpose.
That said, I do agree that AoO/OAs seems to be something a lot of people think the game needs somehow, and flanking in some form also seems like it should be in. As for the squares vs feet issue, I thought the rule was 5 feet = 1 square. It is not that hard to convert one into the other.
That said, the one thing I don't miss about 4th edition is the power system. I like it as far as 4th edition is concerned and it certainly makes each class more interesting to play.....it just doesn't feel very iconicly D&D.
D&D Experience Level: Relatively new
First Edition: 4th
Known Editions: 4th, 3.5
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Magic Experience Level: Fairly skilled
First Expansion: 7th Edition
Play Style: Very Casual
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 4:42AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2010
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2) Divide feet by 5 theres your squares (although diagonal movement wouldnt work the same)
Local (non-US) translations will convert the feet to meters. Now dividing these by 1.5 on the fly was something I hoped I left behind after 3.5.
I'm fine with feet as along squares are also mentioned with every measurement.
> Don't think encounter powers are coming back
I don't want the idea of "encounters" as unit back. But it would be nice pull, slide, push, prone, daze enemys 3x/day for example.
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 4:48AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2008
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2) Divide feet by 5 theres your squares (although diagonal movement wouldnt work the same)
Local (non-US) translations will convert the feet to meters. Now dividing these by 1.5 on the fly was something I hoped I left behind after 3.5.
I'm fine with feet as along squares are also mentioned with every measurement.
> Don't think encounter powers are coming back
I don't want the idea of "encounters" as unit back. But it would be nice pull, slide, push, prone, daze enemys 3x/day for example.
Bah everyone knows meters are a communist plot to sap the will of freedom loving people.
Just say no to meters (and flouridated drinking water)
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 4:56AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 31, 2007
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Oh, he's perfectly within his rights to mention his disappointment, sure. But the tactical module is outside the stated boundaries of the testing. These rules will likely look more compact than the most recent editions of D&D. In many cases, we decided to excise a rule or element of the game to see if it really is a key component of playing D&D.
...
Our goal at this stage is to fine-tune the core rules.
The core rules, being the most basic iteration of the rules. It's already been stated that tactical rules will be an optional module for this edition, and we're not to that point of the testing yet.
Definitely let them know that you're missing that option for combat. But it's not a "slap to the face" at all. It's just part of how testing works. Start simple, then add complexity.
Bah everyone knows meters are a communist plot to sap the will of freedom loving people.
Just say no to meters (and flouridated drinking water)
Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face. Do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream? Children's ice cream!
Know when fluoridation began? 1946! How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice! That's the way your hard-core Commie works!
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 5:42AM
#9
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This is funny.
They have specifically said they will release modules expanding more options for people who want advanced complexity in other areas... such as combat tactics and maneuvers etc.
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13 months ago ::
May 26, 2012 - 6:31AM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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D&D isn't a tactical war game. It's origin may be from there, but it grew into something bigger, better, and more about fantasy and storytelling. This is what made the game great. Then, 4e came out and went back to a more tactical war game feel...and it failed. While I agree that there's always been a need for good strategy and combat rules, I think 4e went too far. If a more complex, tactical war game is what you want, there are other games out there that already do that, like Warhammer.
"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
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