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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:34PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2012
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@Mand12
You are fighting the good fight sir. I fear it's hopeless to change fears and dismay. I do though think when the extra stuff comes out it will restore them or at least some of them.
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:36PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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they need to understand that a certain portion of the player base considers their current iteration unacceptable.
Except they know it's unacceptable. They know exactly why it's unacceptable. And they've told you, speifically, the sorts of things they're going to do to address that. They also told you that it's not in this version, and that it's coming later. Respect their choice.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:37PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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Ultimately, their job is to sell me something.
I'd argue that their job right now is not to sell the game, but to create it. They're not asking us to buy it; they're asking us to help build the game.
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:43PM
#14
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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they need to understand that a certain portion of the player base considers their current iteration unacceptable.
Except they know it's unacceptable. They know exactly why it's unacceptable. And they've told you, speifically, the sorts of things they're going to do to address that. They also told you that it's not in this version, and that it's coming later. Respect their choice.
First: No.
Second: so, they know that vancian magic is unacceptable? The fighter, the wizard, the silly distance and shape measures, the... well, the everything?
So, what was the point of the playtest? An exercise in Mosochism? An attempt to measure the temperature at which their inadequate server architecture finally melts down?
Ultimately, their job is to sell me something.
I'd argue that their job right now is not to sell the game, but to create it. They're not asking us to buy it; they're asking us to help build the game.
They are crowdsourcing things that they otherwise would have to pay for. To imagine your position in this exchange otherwise is to adopt a supine attitude.
Are you (or I, or anyone here) going to get the game for free for having donated hours to playtesting it? No? Then they are ultimately trying to sell me something. This is simply a cheaper way of doing a survey.
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:44PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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First: No.
If you can't respect the developers, then why are you here?
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:45PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jul 17, 2004
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Ultimately, their job is to sell me something.
I'd argue that their job right now is not to sell the game, but to create it. They're not asking us to buy it; they're asking us to help build the game.
Not quite: they're asking us to provide (free) data on what type of game we (collectively) want to play in order for them to understand what they need to do to create a game that is most likely to successfully sell the most amount of product to the majority of us.
"I'm just killing time, since it's killing us."
--Cyon Fal'Duur, Pathfinder Chronicler: Rogue Ascendant
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:45PM
#17
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2012
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Honestly, the playtest is way too basic. They should have given all of the rules to make characters up to level 5. If those rules are not complete, as some people tell me, then they should not present the rules like this.
Why should they? Because it would satisfy your demands? Sorry, that's not a good enough reason. They put out the playtest to test exactly what they want to test, not what you want to test. You have to accept that, and you can't complain that they're not running things the way you would run them.
They shouldn't present the rules like this, eh? Well, the alternative is not doing a playtest. Now tell me, what would you, and makeshiftwings, and the rest of the raging 4e fans prefer? That this incredibly basic, ridiculously early, mostly incomplete build were still just internal? If the state of the game is the same as it is now, but you just didn't have the information about it, would you be any happier? Would you be even more concerned?
They cannot do what you want, right now. The things you're wanting can't be designed properly until they get the basics done. And by basics, I don't mean "make the fighter suck because Mearls said so." I mean how attacks and defenses work, how hitpoints work, how monsters work. They can't do what you want yet. But that's not something to rage and complain about: they'll get to it.
I say this as a huge 4e fan, and someone who will very likely not get 5e if it doesn't have the elements of 4e that I am expecting it to have: tactically deep combat, wide variety of options for all character concepts, and balance among all character types. Yet, somehow, I can understand what they're doing, and respect their path for doing it, instead of jumping down their throats for not giving me my pony first, before anyone else.
I'm working on a tabletop game system right now. After a few weeks of work, I posted it online to be playtested and critiqued. I wanted to test the classes, so I put the full class rules (up to level 10) online. I gave all the materials to create characters at those levels, becuase i wanted feedback on all the abilites, not just one or two.
If it were me, I wouldn't release something so incomplete and basic as this. I'd rather they either tweak it and release a more complete version, or release a lot more of what they had planned.
By the way, I don't like 4th Edition very much. The best thing that came out of it was Gamma World, in my humble opinion.
I don't want my "pony", as you so insultingly put it. I want a number of options so that I can build my own character, i.e. fill the role that a player is expected to fill. I want to experiment, combine abilities, see what works and what doesn't. I can't do that with what they have given me. It's like being told that I can have as much lego as I want later, but right now I have to play with six pieces until they feel like giving me more.
Then, when I complain that it's not enough to play with, everyone tells me to sit down, shut up, and like it.
Well, the pieces I've been given are pretty lackluster, and until I'm given more I'm going to make my own pieces.
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:46PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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I'm working on a tabletop game system right now. After a few weeks of work, I posted it online to be playtested and critiqued. I wanted to test the classes, so I put the full class rules (up to level 10) online. I gave all the materials to create characters at those levels, becuase i wanted feedback on all the abilites, not just one or two.
Guess what? They're not wanting to test the classes with this round.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:51PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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Are you (or I, or anyone here) going to get the game for free for having donated hours to playtesting it? No? Then they are ultimately trying to sell me something. This is simply a cheaper way of doing a survey.
I won't be getting it for free, but having a glimpse at the creation process and getting a chance of influencing the direction is good enough for me. Why wouldn't it be?
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1 year ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 6:55PM
#20
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+1 to OP
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