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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 5:33AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2008
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Here is a central thread where my players in my 5e game tonight will describe the ins and outs of 5e and how it works. I'm the DM, so I'll be discussing the game in the DM's corner. Not that it makes too much sense but hey . . .
Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore. 
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 6:22PM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 24, 2012
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I just subscribe myself,for having the opportunity of get the new game.I would like to play as soon as i get the chance.In the meanwhile i will read your opinion about.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 6:27PM
#3
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Subscribed as well.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 7:08PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2008
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One of my players had this to say:
Leeal: "Instead of having spells per day at an arbitrarily high number of spell slots of differing levels, the whole concept of spells per day in and of itself always felt very limiting. You can cast all of your 9th level spells in a given encounter by the time you've reached that level, because most creatures are either immune to magic entirely or have a set number of spells that can really do anything to them. For instance, how many creatures by high level are completely immune to death effects of all types? Or have true seeing? Or are immune or even gain health based on specific types of damage? As it stood in 3.5, a wizard could be Batman if he had time to prepare the exact spells for a given encounter. But how often do you really get that type of advanced intel? And sure ,you could leave open your higher level spells and use your lower level spell slots to use divine spells to get intel, then waste 15 or 20 minutes preparing the spells you needed. But what if you wanted to run more than 3 or 4 encounters per day? What if you're in a group of gamers who, like me, enjoy crawling through the dungeons and know exactly what we're going to do?
"I propose a shorter version of the vancian system that iconically makes D&D what it is. Instead of spells per day, you have spells per encounter. Unlike 4e, though, it's not just one spell per encounter that you selected because you levelled up. It still follows the same prep time and normal guidelines for preparing said spells, including being open. The number of spell slots themselves are lowered to accomodate this, something like 1 spell slot at level 1, 5 at level 10, and maybe 10 at level 20. Number of spell slots increased by your primary casting attribute. You prepare the spells, and when the encounter comes up, you expend the spell slot (either losing the allocated spell as with prepared casters, or just losing the slot alone for spontaneous casters). Then the slot is gone until you re-prepare as normal. No more 8 hour rests, though. 30 minutes at most, just like normal fatigue.
"The number of spell slots could be subject to change, but in all I think spells per encounter is a much better way to go than spells per day, and "replenishing" your spells in much the same way as removing fatigue (resting for 30 minutes instead of 8 hours) would be a better way to handle the dynamic and fast paced gameplay that people like me enjoy."
This is a Fourth innovation he has suggested.
Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 7:19PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2008
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Leeal Leverduin again.
"One thing I did notice is that the rules seem to hint towards giving infinite casting while outside of combat. While this is nice, I'm not entirely sure how that ties into the still-used "spells per day" system. I go into combat, and I use my spell. Now i can't use it for the rest of the day in combat, but outside of combat I can cast it infinitely? Spells per encounter would be a much better fit for something like that, as spells per day stops making sense entirely for that particular clause. For reference, page 23 of the "How to Play" PDF. 'Outside combat, you can effectively cast a spell whenever you want, but you must complete one spell before casting the next.'"
The thing is, the rules do hint towards giving infinite casting. But while in combat, the spells per day system is used. What Leeal is saying is that we need to address this apparent disparity. If the spells recharge per encounter, it would fit the infinite casting.
Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 7:22PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2011
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Sounds like his comments involve a lot of speculation regarding content that isn't available to us...he's not qualified to comment on resistances of high level monsters, because we've only been gived a select few monsters for PCs levels 1-3. he can't say that you can cast all of your 9th level spells in a given encounter by the time you've reached that level, because we don't know what characters will be capable of at 9th level.
Speculation on future content doesn't really serve any purpose in this playtest. We should be focusing on the content that we've been given.
Also, we have at-will spells now, so that seems like it would invalidate most of his fears.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 7:25PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2011
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Leeal Leverduin again.
"One thing I did notice is that the rules seem to hint towards giving infinite casting while outside of combat. While this is nice, I'm not entirely sure how that ties into the still-used "spells per day" system. I go into combat, and I use my spell. Now i can't use it for the rest of the day in combat, but outside of combat I can cast it infinitely? Spells per encounter would be a much better fit for something like that, as spells per day stops making sense entirely for that particular clause. For reference, page 23 of the "How to Play" PDF. 'Outside combat, you can effectively cast a spell whenever you want, but you must complete one spell before casting the next.'"
The thing is, the rules do hint towards giving infinite casting. But while in combat, the spells per day system is used. What Leeal is saying is that we need to address this apparent disparity. If the spells recharge per encounter, it would fit the infinite casting.
Yeah, he's not getting it. The manual says that you can cast spells whenever you want outside of combat, not that you can cast a specific spell whenever you want outside of combat. The spells that you would be casting outside of combat are at-will cantrips, which don't actually apply to the once-per-day rule. I mean, you could cast a daily spell outside of combat, but it wouldn't do you any good, and it would be wasted.
The daily spells that we've been given don't really have any utility outside of combat (other than "comprehend languages"). No one is standing outside of their tent casting "burning hands" out into the woods.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 7:42PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2008
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You really don't understand this guy. But I want to say this, number one:
We are giving feedback on the game.
2. I want to say that the Vancian Casting system is a step back because 4e introduced the per-encounter spellcasting.
3. I would like optional rules in the main book for handling the casting of magic so that groups like mine can enjoy spellcasting in our games.
4. Please don't assume my friend misunderstands the rules. If you play with Leeal as his DM, he would give you headaches by exploiting the rules and doing legal things with the rules. He's giving his feedback, I'm just reporting it.
We all want to make 5th Edition become a win win situation for the fans and for the company. All FEEDBACK is valuable to wizards. And he is just giving his feedback. If you don't like what I said in this reponse, you can visit someone else's thread and post there.
Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore.
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13 months ago ::
May 24, 2012 - 8:15PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2011
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4. Please don't assume my friend misunderstands the rules. If you play with Leeal as his DM, he would give you headaches by exploiting the rules and doing legal things with the rules. He's giving his feedback, I'm just reporting it.
I'm not "assuming" anything. He DID misunderstand the rules. I'll give you an example.
"One thing I did notice is that the rules seem to hint towards giving infinite casting while outside of combat. While this is nice, I'm not entirely sure how that ties into the still-used "spells per day" system. I go into combat, and I use my spell. Now i can't use it for the rest of the day in combat, but outside of combat I can cast it infinitely?"
This is false. He's misinterpreting what is in the rulebook. You don't get unlimited use of your daily spells when you are out of combat. When you're out of combat, you're not limited by turns. Not ALL spells are daily spells. There are at-will cantrips that can be used as many times as you want. These utility spells are the ones that would most commonly be used outside of combat. Of course you can use dailies outside of combat as well, but that still counts towards your one daily use. However, you don't need to wait for another round to pass before you cast a different spell.
Burning hands still can't be cast more than once a day.
I'm not saying that your friend doesn't understand the rules of previous editions, but I don't think he spent enough time going over the rules for this playtest.
And commenting on content that isn't included in the playtest isn't valuable feedback, it's specualtion. This is like writing a review for a game you haven't played. Your whole first feedback post is filled with references to high-level play, PCs, and monsters. We don't know about anything beyond level 3. Hell, we don't even know all there is to know about levels 1-3.
Feedback has to be relevant to be useful, and if your friends suspicions on high-level play are incorrect, then his feedback serves no purpose.
The feedback on the spell-system would be useful, had he interpreted it correctly. Read the book again, and take a look at what it says. Spells can only be used once per day, in-combat or out of combat. Remember that D&D Next is focusing more on the adventure, and less on the encounter.
I also don't see how you can argue that all feedback is valuable, then tell me that I should leave your thread for giving feedback on your feedback.
I never said that you shouldn't have posted what you did, I simply pointed out the problems with the feedback you gave.
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13 months ago ::
May 25, 2012 - 2:10PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2004
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He's also basing assumptions about how higher-level Vancian casting will work at higher levels on previous editions, in your second post. He has no idea how anything beyond 3rd level characters and 2nd level spells work in Next, but is "reporting" on them anyway.
Poor feedback.
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