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May 14, 2012 -- 7:24PM, thorbardin wrote:

I see. What I propose can still benefit a sandbox game because I'm not only talking about creating a 3 act story arc that takes characters from level 1 to 20. I'm talking about techniques to grab thea players attentions in the first 5 minutest f the session and then hold it for the next 3 hoursbecause of technique. Because of what you did structure wise in that session. am I making sense?

Example: you players decide to head for the oasis. 

To add mystery and interest you cut ahead 4 days in time, with some of PCs limping into the oasis at dawn (you don't say who didn't make it). You mention that they are all cut up pretty bad, burnt from the sun, very little equipment, but that one has a green jewel the size of a mans head and that all that gaze at it, fall in rapturous silence. There is a man waiting, he isn't alone and is bettered armed and in better health than all of you combined. One osnarls croaks his name through blistered lips, "Balkar?! But it isn't possible we saw you die." "hand over the egg" is all he says.

Then cut to Day 1 in the desert, healthy, happy, on camels heading othe into the desert.

By this little narrative technique that I call Flash Forward, you have done the following:

1. That something really bad is going to happen to them on the way there. (duh, it's d&d... But really bad, like maybe one of them didn't make it. You coveryourself in this by introducing an NPC somewhere along the journey. The NPC is sacrificed if all the players do make it. You cannot be found to be lying about the future, )

2. That a strange magical jewel is in their future. 

3. You've introduced a man they don't yet know, but will meet - think has died - and then meet again. 

This isn't about whether there are gems, Balkars, deserts or oasisEs. It's about having ideas, suggestions, rules, guide lines, techniques that help to tell your story in a more interesting... Engaging...way. Much in the same way as movies, tv shows and books grip the reader.... It's their techniques sometimes morethan their subject matter. That's what I'm advocating more of.

 
 

I like the idea of starting in media res, or by using a Flash Forward.  However, that doesn't work in a Sandbox style game that OleOneEye likes to run/play in.  Because the moment you said that someone doesn't make it, or the characters are injured, etc, you've put them on the path that REQUIRES those actions to take place in the near future.    
What if your players said "no, we don't want to go that direction into the desert."  Or if they tried to keep your Balkar alive if they met him during the journey.  
The storytelling method you describe places strong rails on the players- You are saying "This is how the journey ends, so how did you get there?"

For what it's worth, I don't mind some wide rails and branching paths in a game I play in or run.  I don't want a true sandbox, where there's no ultimate goal.  I'd like some guidance, for players and as a player.  Thankfully, most of that kind of stuff should be handled in Session Zero. 

The DMG2 for 4e had some good examples of how to weave stories and make a better DM, but it wasn't enough information.  I'm not sure if there ever is.

I thin kwhat it comes down to is how much of the narrative a DM is willing to hand over to the players and how comfortable the players are in creating their own paths of narrative.  Gaming on rails where the DM sets out a path for the players is fine, as long as everyone agrees to it and as long as there is still room to manuever.   I don't know of any players that want to play through someone's novel, where X player has to die at Y moment in order to fit the DM's story.  Thankfully, I don't believe that you're advocating anything of that sort Thorbardin.