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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 10:04AM
#21
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that phrase needs to go.
Haters gonna hate.... really needs to go.
for all what 4e did right, it did an equal number of things wrong and both of which would be highly oppionated as no two people will agree on everything
One can reasonably say that about past editions too. I came into D&D with AD&D 2e, played through 3e, and into 4e, and I enjoyed them all while playing them. IMO, each edition has been better than the last. However, none of them are without their significant flaws.
And, realistically, it doesn't matter what a person is interested in; there are always going to be haters, who are going to hate it. The D&D community should be especially aware of this fact given how much hate has been directed at the game by people and organizations that never even tried to understand it, and all the hate directed at the socially different people who chose to play the game.
Heck, the following quote from the movie Airheads is the closest thing D&D and its players have ever gotten to a fair shake in the public consciousness:
Chazz: It's... uh, he's... awww ****. Kayla, there's something I gotta tell ya. Um... I was a geek in high school. I had really short hair, I played "Dungeons and Dragons", I had a bug collection, I ate my Boogers. My name's not Chazz... it's Chester, and I understand if You don't love me, anymore.
D & D Rocker: I played D & D, too!
School Newspaper Rocker: I was editor of the school magazine!
Corduroy Rocker: I used to wear corduroy pants!
Masturbating Rocker: I used to masturbate... constantly!
So, yeah, haters are gonna hate.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 2:49PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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I think it will be remembered as a interesting and rather brave experiment, but at the same time one that ultimately failed at being D&D. After playing it for a couple of months, me and my group all felt like it wasnt really D&D, it was a D&D spinoff. It still has a lot of fans, but to us grognards, they all have a really warped perception of what D&D is. And they will all be expecting to have that perception, be met in the 5th edition. Now with this modular system it may be possible to have that D&D spinoff and the "real" D&D running at the same table. It will be very interesting to see if it works. I hope so 
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 4:57PM
#23
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Again, what? The Deva is not the Aasimar. The world team didn't want the Aasimar, so it choose a race with a different celestial connection.
Where do you get the bit about the WotC designers not wanting the Aasimar. The WotC designers said that the Deva was the 4e Aasimar put through the same sort of re-imaging that the Tiefling got. The end result just turned out so different that most people don't see the connection.
Just further backing this up, FRPG says on p. 21:
Just as the Mulan deities could only send avatars into Faerûn, the angelic servants who accompanied them also had to incorporate themselves in mortal flesh, and became the race of devas—or aasimars, as they were known in Mulhorandi.
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1 year ago ::
May 06, 2012 - 8:03PM
#24
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and thats not what it said back in 3.x and earlier editions on the aasimar.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 7:04AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2012
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The New Coke analogy doesn't work. A lot of people legitimately enjoyed 4e and consider it the best edition ever written. It was very different, but it wasn't a failure.
actually this statement proves it is exactly like New Coke -- if you don't recall, New Coke had quite a lot of followers that absolutely loved it, but it was so varied from the original Coke product it was condemned from the start. so while you or others might love 4th Edition, just remember, a lot of people loved New Coke, too... just not enough to prevent the company from backpeddling and trying to return to their "classic" ways.
What's the matter, you dissentious rogues,
That rubbing the poor itch of your opinion
Make yourselves scabs?
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 7:18AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2003
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and thats not what it said back in 3.x and earlier editions on the aasimar.
Certain parts of 4e had a really bad habit of completely contradicting previous conceptions of monsters while still claiming to be set within the same continuity. Archons going from Lawful Good celestials for three editions to suddenly archons being evil elementals, eladrin being Chaotic Good celestials and suddenly that race vanishing and mortal sun/moon elves being called eladrin, other outsider races simply vanishing entirely because 4e randomly got rid of certain alignments.
It was awkward to say the least, and lends to the conception among many that 4e was simply too far afield from previous editions of D&D - essentially being a different game entirely (felt especially harshly in campaign settings like FR). It has elements that are worth future consideration yes, but a lot of things again fell too far afield for much of the community to view it as D&D-enough in their eyes.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 10:30AM
#27
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I'm getting the impression that a lot of people's concerns with 4e were not based on mechanics, but on fluff text. Fluff text is the easiest thing to change in an edition and I'm sure 5e will be able to make fluff text based on user input.
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 11:59AM
#28
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New Coke
The best thing about New Coke is that now Coca-Cola has the word Classic underneath it now, that's cool imo. First time I saw 4e I thought it was different enough from D&D that they could release a 5th edition just like the pre4e game and it would seem new. And they could release it quickly.
Maybe instead of D&D Next (not surprisingly like Pepsi Next) go with D&D Classic.
No, lol, I am serious!
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 12:09PM
#29
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I'm getting the impression that a lot of people's concerns with 4e were not based on mechanics, but on fluff text.
Which makes no sense to me, since the fluff text in any edition can be easily and completely ignored and changed if you don't like it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
May 07, 2012 - 12:22PM
#30
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- Unconventional Mafia Pro
- Dark Lord
Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2001
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It depends on 5e
If 5e is a full success, 4th passes somewhat gracefully (at least as much as 1st and 2nd have). It will be viewed as an experiment, with a level of success depending on how much of it is seen in 5th. It will also be seen as Dark Times for the brand, given that the success of 5th is contingent on sparking a new golden age of united D&D, but the rules sustem might have its advantages as well as its flaws remembered this way.
If 5e is a limited success because it fails to draw the 4e-crowd, 4th withers and dies (there can be no 4thfinder). It is regarded bitterly and relegated to the land of Discontinuity, most likely Canon Discontinuity even. Every effort is made to grind its legacy into the dust to force acceptance of the New Order. In time, those diehards who remain become another wing of the very OSR grognards they once despised.
If 5e is a limited success because it fails to reunite the older crowds, but attracts the 4e bunch, 4th passes gracefully and is remembered in D&D circles as a golden age that "purged" D&D of all the "awful" things the older editions crowd was looking for. With 5e's failure to attract them, 3e/PF and OSR players direct even more bitterness at 4e than before, seeing it as the act that sparked Edition War.
If 5e fails miserably at attracting old players of any stripe, 4e joins the ranks of those who once hated it -- while there may be no 4thfinder, the miserable nature of the new edition may prompt a 4e answer to OSRIC. 4e diehards become what they've hated, unrepentant followers of an outdated edition ready to lob vitriol at the next one. In fact, being less removed than 3e/PF and OSR, they probably pick up the torch of the loud grognard, railing at the fans of the new.
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice." THE COALITION WAR GAME-Phyrexian Praetor Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill) Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills) Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill) Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills) Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills) Round 6: (8-7-1) [current round] Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920
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