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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 4:24PM
#1
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In my mind, 4e is a re-imagining of D&D. For whatever reason, WotC has made D&D their baby, unique from anything seen under Gygax or TSR. Maybe to put some distance between D&D and d20 spin-offs like Pathfinder? Now, with DDN, I can’t help but wonder if WotC feels they’ve went too far and now want to recapture (for lack of a better word) some of the legacy of D&D (rather than leave it in the hands of a game like Pathfinder). Maybe? The next iteration of D&D will be the 40th anniversary edition of D&D. That’s a perfectly good excuse for bringing the D&D community (back) together I think. That’s good. These rambling thoughts are all basically a lead in to this question: What will be the legacy of 4e?
I’m mean for years and years, the lore of the game was carried over from edition to edition. Then, things were re-imagined with 4e; WotC seemed to say “Okay, let’s make this game our own”. To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s their prerogative after all. For instance, we had the Great Wheel cosmology in 1e (Manual of the Planes), 2e (Planescape), and 3e. Then, in 4e, the Great Wheel was supplanted by the World Axis cosmology. That’s the most obvious example of re-imagining that took place with 4e. Another example is the re-imagining of Tieflings as a core race in 4e, or even Aasimar as Deva. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining here. I’m actually a fan of the new cosmology, and 4e Tieflings are okay  . I’ve really enjoyed the re-imagined aspects of 4e. For the first time in a very long time, the lore of the game feels fresh and new to me. I can’t help but wonder however what will be the legacy of 4e? Has the re-imagined world of 4e really been around long enough to have a claim to the D&D legacy? I wonder if the designers will carry it forward in some manner or if they’ll simply let it fade away. I doubt it but I wonder how it will all 'mesh' with D&D lore in the long run. = = = What do you guys and gals think? I'm curious.
/\ Art
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 5:47PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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I think that the legacy of 4e will be written in the critical reception of 5e and how much of 4 remains in 5. If 5e is everything the game designers hope and say it will be, and that the various factions all want to reunify us to one sysyem, then it will probably be seen favourably as the system that brought us to this point. without it and its ideas, no 5e. If little 4e is seen in 5e and 5e is a success, then probably most will consider 4e an experiment that had interesting bits but mostly failed. If 5e tanks, presumably cos it tried too hard to make it all things to all people, then 4e will be seen as the last viable system that didnt capitulate and retain relevance and possibly in new fans. My crystal ball gazing. 
The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.
-Gary Gygax
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 5:59PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2012
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I think it will carry the same legacy as New Coke.
Too much deviation from the original product in an attempt to make money and compete with rival producers of similar products (Pepsi, or in this case, the video game / MMO industry).
What's the matter, you dissentious rogues,
That rubbing the poor itch of your opinion
Make yourselves scabs?
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 10:22PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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I’m mean for years and years, the lore of the game was carried over from edition to edition. Then, things were re-imagined with 4e; WotC seemed to say “Okay, let’s make this game our own”. To be clear, there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s their prerogative after all.
For instance, we had the Great Wheel cosmology in 1e (Manual of the Planes), 2e (Planescape), and 3e. Then, in 4e, the Great Wheel was supplanted by the World Axis cosmology. That’s the most obvious example of re-imagining that took place with 4e. Another example is the re-imagining of Tieflings as a core race in 4e, or even Aasimar as Deva.
In 2ed, Demons and Devils were called Baazteu and Tanari. Sigil was first mentioned in 1994, 20 years after D&D came out. In 3ed, suddenly Paladins could be non-human. In every edition, things change. The important difference is whether the fans accept it as "right" or "not right".
I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded part. Do you mean how Tieflings were made integral to the 4ed campaign world, or that they could be included in the first PHB?
Has the re-imagined world of 4e really been around long enough to have a claim to the D&D legacy? I wonder if the designers will carry it forward in some manner or if they’ll simply let it fade away. I doubt it but I wonder how it will all 'mesh' with D&D lore in the long run.
Stuff like Planescape and Dark Sun are very incongruous with what came before, but they were accepted, at least by significant amounts of people. I think that the PoLand world will be remembered strongest by its fans, and when they design their own product, it will be influenced by PoLand. I doubt it's going to mesh, because so much of it is irreconciable with the past, and also because the design choices to change certain things reflect different desires and uses of the world and multiverse.
"People want balance but can't accept this homogenization that occurs as a result of that balance being implemented. then they complain that the fighter is weaker than the wizard ad nauseam.: - Teitan
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 11:02PM
#5
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I think it will carry the same legacy as New Coke.
This.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 1:50AM
#6
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I'm thinking, in no particular order:
- Warlords
- Avengers
- The new cosmology
- Power Sources
- Roles being made explicit for the first time
- Themes
- Fighters finally being equals with Wizards
- Casters having at-wills
I'm sure it will be remembered as a wild time when fighters casted spells, wizards could cast some spells as long as they liked,role playing was banned, skills were thrown out, DnD became WoW, the non caster proletariat raised up and achieved equality for the briefest moment a la the Paris Commune, all this among Randian screams of "If everyone is a caster then no one is!".
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 6:25AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 12, 2006
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1) Balance among different classes all over the board. 2) No need to have a magical healbot with you. 3) Much more detailed and creative combat for non-casters. 4) At-will powers for casters
5) Faster encounter creation for DMs
Honestly I would like 5e to be 4.5 once all optional modules will be out, while being close to 1e/2e when only core or a few optional modules will be used.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 7:05AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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A lot will depend on how well 5e goes over.
If 5e does badly it is very likely there will be 3 camps, the 3e/Pathfinder players, the 4e players and the 5e players. This would mean a good chance of Hasbro retiring D&D as a product line. Pathfinder would become the only supported version of the game and would slowly absorb most of players. If this does happen, 4e will be viewed as a mistake that killed the game by many.
If 5e does well, then it will get most of the players fairly quickly. In this case it will depend on how much 4e there is in 5e. If there is a lot, then 4e will be viewed as an experiment that went too far too fast, if there isn't a lot, then it will be viewed as a failed experiment.
I think WotC is smart enough to realize if they want to bring the 3e and 4e camps together they need to carefully blend the best and most popular bits from the previous editions without favoring any one edition too much. That means the new cosmology and background will have a blend of 3e and 4e. Because of that, I expect the Feywild and Shadowfell will be carried over in some form. Some elements of the Astral Sea will probably be incorporated in the new Great Wheel. Of the 4e gods, only the Ravenqueen is likely to carry over, she is really the only popular addition, the rest are either generic or already existed.
With the races, some background material is likely to be carried over. For most races the background material is generic enough that it can be incorporated easily. Tielfings are really the only hard case, as some people prefer the 3e version and some the 4e version and they are different enough that the game really can't have both at the same time. If WotC carries over the 4e version the background material will probably come with it. I'm rather expecting some sort of attempt to blend the two though, and who knows where they will go for background then.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 8:29AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2012
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I think that the new coke analogy pretty much nails it. For many players 4e was a sort of, scouring of the shire, the removal of all the lore from previous additions really turned people off. From the removal of spell names to the rape of the forgotten realms a lot of people just got pissed. Most of the new 4e mechanics were really solid but it’s super hard to overcome people’s hatred of the destruction of the lore. 4e represents the death knell of the hobby as it exists today, 5e can save it but only if it’s nearly perfect and appeals to the whole player base, that’s a big order. I think that 4e will be rembered as the game that killed the FLAGS and put the board game and pen and paper games into an online only sales situation. Pathfinder may be the hobbies white night riding to the rescue I think pizo and the PDF are the future of the hobby.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 2:47PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2006
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If 5e does well, then it will get most of the players fairly quickly. In this case it will depend on how much 4e there is in 5e. If there is a lot, then 4e will be viewed as an experiment that went too far too fast, if there isn't a lot, then it will be viewed as a failed experiment.
If there's alot of 4e in 5e? Then I predict that 5e will not succeed.
Why? Because a significant % of the people WoTC is trying to sell it to have allready rejected 4e. They've done so twice now counting Essentials.
So I can't imagine they'll act any different if given a 3rd dose.
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