|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 12:06PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2008
|
Greetings All,
When I think of the word "faction", it brings me back to think of Alexander Hamiliton and the Federalist Papers, he spoke of the evil of faction and how deterimental they were to a newly formed constitutional democratic republic.
So, I am thinking about the different editions of D&D and how the OGL & d20 SRD have actually strengthened the many factions and allowing them to grow. Of course, WOTC would love to bring all of these "prodigal sons" home, however, will they? Are we really starving for yet another edition/iteration of D&D?
Let me list and discuss the primary factions as I see them.
Faction #1: Old School Renaissance (OSR) - D&D 0e-2e, BECMI This group loves the old ways and thanks to the OGL there is current support for their playstyle. For example, Swords & Wizardry (0e) is supported by Frog God Games (Bill Webb of Necromancer Games). There are various adventures and you get even get Tome of Horrors Complete in S&W format. Another example is New Haven Games with their 2e clone called Myth & Magic; there is a Kickstarter with nearly $20,000 pledged for a Player's Guide.
Faction #2: 3e Lives & Thrives - D&D 3e. This group thanks to Paizo and Pathfinder RPG continues to live and thrive. So much so, I believe it sent a shockwave of urgency and panic through WOTC. This group has matured to the point where it is friendly and supportive to Faction #1. For example, Frog God Games supports both the Pathfinder and Swords & Wizardry systems. In fact, Frog God is in the midst of updating the 3e product Rappan Athuk to both systems. Bill is trying to get this product in physical stores so a Kickstarter for this project is beginning today.
Faction #3: Old Guard of 4e, 4eVengers - D&D 4e(2008-2010). This group loves 4e and is the most militant because they are still worling through the stages of grief toward acceptance. They greatly dislike both 3e and Revised 4e-Essentials. They revel in the destruction of sacred cows and fear that the old ways are returning. They feel that 4e is a superior balanced system compared to what has come before. Sadly, once 4e is out of print and no OGL, they will start to diminish.
Faction#4: 4e Unified - Can't We All Get Along - D&D 4e. This group loves 4e and Essentials and just wants the current edition to keep going. This faction is least likely to care what anybody else is playing.
Faction#5: 4e Essentials Only - Revised 4e. This group was apprehensive about 4e upon release in 2008 but continued to play mainly on the strength of the brand. In 2010, with the release of Essentials they became much happier. This faction has the potential to be the most receptive of D&D Next; unfortunately, I believe this is the smallest faction.
Obviously, there is some overlap because it is difficult to place people in nice neat bins. Like alignment, some people would be incompatible in a party. Also, people aren't static and loyaties shift.
As for me, I started in Faction#1 because I started playing in 1981 with D&D B/X and 1e. I progressed to Faction#5 but eventually replaced with Faction #2. So, I am continue to be in both Factions #1 and #2.
I anxiously await the playtest to see if the status quo for me will continue.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 12:23PM
#2
|
- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
|
I agree with your identification fo the factions.
The Old School Renaissance is really a conglomeration of lots of factions playing various discontinued games. While some of the hardcore are never going to leave their game, they aren't really consumers at this point anyway.
But I think a lot of them would be happy to invest in a game if it preserved some of the feel of their particular edition, and allowed them to mingle with new gamers (to replace any gamers who leave) and to get new content relevant to their table.
So while I think the 3e Thrives and Lives crowd will be the hardest to recruit, since they are seem to be swimming happily in the Pathfinder pool, I do think that the OSRIC crowd, along with the Fourgnards can be brought together in a good way. If the game is robust enough, I suspect there are enough 3e players who would be drawn by the D&D brand back in the fold too.
That's still a tall order.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 12:51PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2008
|
Thanks for your response, Wrecan. I always enjoy reading your posts and the insight that they bring. I know the 4e is your favorite. When I reflect on how much you enjoy this edition, it makes me think that a good DM goes a long way to making any edition a fun game for all.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 1:38PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2006
|
I agree with your identification fo the factions.
The Old School Renaissance is really a conglomeration of lots of factions playing various discontinued games. While some of the hardcore are never going to leave their game, they aren't really consumers at this point anyway.
No, they just aren't WoTC, 4e consumers at this point.
Thankfully there are companies out there who're supporting our preffered editions & happy to see our $....
And of course we do play other games. Just when it comes to playing D&D we've virtually no choice than to spend $ elsewhere. Or share PDFs of the old stuff.
But I think a lot of them would be happy to invest in a game if it preserved some of the feel of their particular edition, and allowed them to mingle with new gamers (to replace any gamers who leave) and to get new content relevant to their table.
We're not troglodytes or leppers living in caves apart from our fellow gamers you know.
It's also not very hard to introduce non-4e players (&/or players who've discovered that they didn't like 4e) to other editions....
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 1:49PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2008
|
I agree with your identification fo the factions.
The Old School Renaissance is really a conglomeration of lots of factions playing various discontinued games. While some of the hardcore are never going to leave their game, they aren't really consumers at this point anyway.
No, they just aren't WoTC, 4e consumers at this point.
Thankfully there are companies out there who're supporting our preffered editions & happy to see our $....
And of course we do play other games. Just when it comes to playing D&D we've virtually no choice than to spend $ elsewhere. Or share PDFs of the old stuff.
But I think a lot of them would be happy to invest in a game if it preserved some of the feel of their particular edition, and allowed them to mingle with new gamers (to replace any gamers who leave) and to get new content relevant to their table.
We're not troglodytes or leppers living in caves apart from our fellow gamers you know.
It's also not very hard to introduce non-4e players (&/or players who've discovered that they didn't like 4e) to other editions....
+1 @ CCS
Which is why Faction #1 is such a happy-go-lucky group, they are willing introduce any game from 0e-2e to others as well as point out the companies willing to support them.
It is also why I am looking forward to attending the North Texas RPG Convention in June in Dallas, Texas. They are such a friendly group I looking forward to meeting many of them.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 1:57PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Jan 18, 2012
|
Just to clarify, the OGL dosn't cover pre-3e stuff - it only covers 3/3.5/d20. All the OGL really did was allow you to put a sticker or logo on the books saying that it is compatable with D&D ... and at the time that had a huge benefit.
There is nothing stopping a Paizoesque company from producing a 4e clone. Patents and copywrite law do not cover an idea, system, recipe, or set of rules but does cover the expression of those things. So you could put out "Demons and Drakons" or "Bludgeons and Flaggons" provided you strip out all the 'fluff' that is WotC IP and replace it and re-word everything. Every feat would need a new name, every skill a differently worded description, and Tieflings would have to be "Hellborn" and Warforged would be "Golems" and Dragonborn would be "Drakemen". It's kind of like how you can make a dark colored sugary carbonated beverage and call it Drika-Coka but you can't put it in a red can with a white swoosh or anything too similar to a certain famous brand - or you could make a movie about undead pirates in the carabean looking for aztec treasure but would have to call it "Dead man's pirates". That is the situation with D&D retro-clone games that are not covered by the OGL. The only limitation would be that you could never advertise it as compatable with 4e. At the moment nobody is selling a 4e clone because 4e is still being published, so there is no point. Now that WotC have announced the end of 4e/Essentials you can bet somebody somewhere is working on it.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 2:09PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2008
|
Hmm, I wonder how many from Factions #3-5 would go for 4e clone? The great thing about the 0e-2e retroclones is that they nearly identical in content to D&D core from the perspective editions. Yeah, no beholder or mindflayers, or campaign settings. However, the great thing is d20 System improvements that almost everybody would agree on such as ascending AC, BAB, reduction in saving throw categories, etc. From your description, more of 4e would have to changed so as not violate WOTC IP compared to the other clones.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 2:19PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2003
|
Pretty good break down on factions although I've always prefered the term "Camps" myself and am hesitant to apply the term “Old Guard” to any current edition camps. I have to agree with Wrecan. I know of many Grognards who still refuse to play any version save for 1st ed and original D&D. But I disagree (only to a point though) about the 3/3.5e players being the hardest to win back. I've played in every edition of the game since AD&D and D&D (started in 1983) and enjoyed them all but 3/3.5 was by far the most prolific era of my D&D journey. Most of my friends with the same (or more) number of years invested in D&D enjoyed 3/3.5 as well. We were always resistant to changes at first (whenever a new edition came out) but after a year or so we usually became ardent fans (with a few good House rules of course ;D).
4th sadly was the first edition that we all (my group and three other groups) could not get past its flaws and actually enjoy the game. My group lasted the longest (30 sessions and 5 large scale adventures) but in the end we set it down and went back to our 3.5 Conan campaign and eventually other systems. One of the other three groups went back to playing 3.5 and became huge Pathfinder fans and the second switched to 3rd ed Shadowrun and but recently started Pathfinder as well and last started playing Star Frontiers and Alternity.
But with the new edition of D&D coming soon, talk amongst my fellow DMs and players from these groups has been all about, "What's next with D&D" and “I can't wait to check out 5th". I think (if written well) the next version of D&D will see a return of many 3e players who switched to other games. A lot of these are guys are Grongnards or Greybeards (like myself) who have spent thousands of dollars on D&D over their gaming lifetimes and only stopped when 4th came out (I think that some even felt that WoTC betrayed them by trying to turn D&D into the D&D the MMORPG (that was the complaint I heard the most) and these will probably never return regardless of the changes) as they were dissatisfied or frustrated by 4th and the changes it made in the game.
Little off track there, but my point is that amongst the current 3e players and DMs I know (4 other DM's and 20 players) there a buzzing excitement for this new edition. So because of this I think that it will be the many 3e camps which will probably be the first D&D gamers to seriously look at and possibly and embrace this new edition (if it's written well). Far more so then the 4ed camps who now feel what the 3e camps did a few years ago or the old Grongnards who are still playing their Elf from 1978 and don't care.
"We are men of action, lies do not become us" ~ D.P.R.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 2:25PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
|
3 and 5 are too generalized to be factions at all, and moreover are not a quality unique to any one edition. If anything, they are more fit to describe sects within factions. There are plenty that villify anything made by WOTC. There're players that don't care for 2E unless you include the Player Options supplements. Separists against 3.5 were not unheard of between 04-06.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 2:26PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2007
|
I hope that 5e will bring some unification to our community, but I'm a little skeptical. If factions 1 and 2 are happy with their 0e-3e games, it will probably take a pretty good system to lure them over. I know that I consider my preferred edition about a four-star product on a scale of 1 to 5 -- in order for me to leave it behind, 5e would really have to be a five-star product. It'll be a heck of a challenge to produce a near-perfect system to lure over players who honestly are really happy with the system they already have.
|
|
|
