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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 1:12AM
#41
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Why should all races be able to succeed in all classes?
It's an interesting opinion - but it's not one I share. What exactly makes you believe this should be so? I feel that all races being able to succeed in all classes is another way of saying all races should be fundamentally the same. There should be no meaningful difference in their capabilities. Which is something I disagree with - I don't think your choice of species should have no meaningful effect on your play experience.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 2:00AM
#42
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I agree that races should offer more flavorful abilities.
But the one problem I fear we will hit the most is that races are the #1 element DM's will go "This doesn't exist in my capagin world" so you have this awesome race you really want to play, and the only DM in your area won't allow it because he's running a all human world or Lotr world.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 2:11AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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@bronze_hero Then run yiur own game and ban humans. Bribe your DM with donuts. Stage a sit in with the other players. Or just accept that the guy spending the most time prepping for you to have fun has an idea without an option you want to play and maybe you should give it a bash. You may find out something about yiur game you didnt know cos your normal default options werent there to choose from. Its still the dm that is world building. Its his his vicational right to ban whatever he wants 
The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules.
-Gary Gygax
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 3:02AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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I feel that all races being able to succeed in all classes is another way of saying all races should be fundamentally the same. There should be no meaningful difference in their capabilities. Which is something I disagree with - I don't think your choice of species should have no meaningful effect on your play experience.
I like to come up with a character concept and try to implement it in the game. How would a dwarven paladin behave? How would an elven barbarian behave? How would a half orc cleric of Pelor behave?
But I also want my characters to be somewhat effective, and therefore I wil lose some fun if race become too tied to classes. It is fine to have some ability sore adjustments, but they should not be too big.
On the other hand I like a racial ability such as dark vision. This ability is potentially useful to all classes, and therefore it doesn't force dwarven characters to choose a specific class.
DISCLAIMER: I never played 4ed, so I may misunderstand some of the rules.
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 4:41AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Having all races matter does not mean every race has to be the same. If racial feature are dramatic enough, you can encourage all races to function as any class with bland symmetry.
For example Dwarves could get a bonus 2 HP per level on top of their Con bonus. Haltings get +3 AC for being a small nimble target. Elves get +10t found speed.
So now a dwarf is tough regardless of class. A halflng is hard to hit and can be a all defense no offense fighter or a wizard who might not die if the fighter catches him. The elf can play hit and run via any class as no one but elves can catch him.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 5:10AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2005
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I like the idea that race is important - both in terms of flavor and in terms of mechanics.
I don't necessarily think that you should be prohibited from playing a class because of your race, or that if you wanted to play a class in a certain way you couldn't.
For example - the traditional "Dwarf" is probably associated more with Axes and Warhammers. Dwarves tend to be more fighting oriented than arcane oriented.
this doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to play a dwarf with a long sword, or play a dwarven wizard.
There can be mechanical benefits for playing dwarves in a certain way (i.e. giant hunting, proficient with battle axe, stats are more suited to fighting classes)
There shouldn't be penalties for playing in a certain way, the lack of bonuses should be penalty enough.
Welcome to ZomboniLand - My D&D Blog http://zomboniland.blogspot.com/
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 6:35AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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@Lord_Daxl But the 3½ foot guy should get +3 AC (from Dex) or +2 HP/level (from Con) to compensate the low Str.
Halflings, Gnomes, Kobolds, and Goblins could keep the Strength penalty but should get a bonus to compensate. Halfings are weak but hard to hit. Gnomes are weak but tough as Dwarves. Goblins are weak but fast as Elves. Kobolds are weak but cannot be pinned down.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 9:26AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2008
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In a world where the strength to smash through steel walls is attainable to humans, people can fly just by focusing their mind properly, and anybody with the right training can walk on water or shoot fire out of their fingertips, a 4 foot halfling being as strong as a seven foot orc is what ruins it for you.
This thread is unbelievable. Some people just won't be happy unless everybody is forced to imagine their characters inside a tiny little box of their devising. If the boxes were cool and flavorful, I might be more amenable, but the boxes are all dumb. Orcs must be stupid barbarians! Halflings must be skittish rogues! Deviation is death! Slavery is freedom! HOW DARE YOU PLAY A CHARACTER I AM NOT INTERESTED IN PLAYING!!!
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 9:36AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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In a world where the strength to smash through steel walls is attainable to humans, people can fly just by focusing their mind properly, and anybody with the right training can walk on water or shoot fire out of their fingertips, a 4 foot halfling being as strong as a seven foot orc is what ruins it for you.
To quote myself this is the universe where huge dragons are fought and killed by relatively itty bitty dudes it needs some sort of allowance saying size doesnt matter all that much. Making size significant to performance is contrary to some of its basic paradigms.
If size is significant in a fight the whole thing loses versimilitude ;p
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1 year ago ::
May 04, 2012 - 9:50AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2012
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The assumption is that the D&D universe has magic, monsters, and impossible things. However, this has no berring on whether it can be realistic. Realistic in this sense is "If these fantastical elements exist, how would they realistically be?". Nobody knows for certain since those elements don't exist, that's why we make it up and establish how it would work in rulebooks. The argument about halflings is partially just arguing about what the most realistic way is for them to be preseneted in the D&D universe. As I see it, the other argument, is more about the halfling as a player option and how it would work with the rules for balance. I prefer the former to take precedence, but to some people the latter argument is very important.
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