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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 8:10AM
#61
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Someone on here already played the playtest and really thought it put all the bad stuff from previous editions back in. Its in their signature. They basically unbalanced the game...
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 8:15AM
#62
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
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Maybe I was unclear. A lot of the good things of 4e themes was not in feats and didn't resemble any kind of existing feats. To deliver themes with the same breadth and depth, 5e will need to expand the range of what feats can do and somebody (not me) can be worried that this will not happen.
On my side I'll simply wait for the playtest and see.
well we could creativly combine rumors.
I think it was said that some feats give you powers much like encounter and utility powers in 4th edition.
and they now say your feats come from themes.
does this mean that thmes might give 4th like powers and spells.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 8:43AM
#63
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I really hope the Playtest material later this month has full Themes and Backgrounds as such. Not choices, but the character examples explained in this mechanical way.
And I think Themes should be superior to choose-your-own Feats because in practice they won't be. Two quick reasons I am not using Themes is because I am exploiting some Feats to optimize (min/max) better than any Theme I could find or I am not using a Theme because I am using different Feats to create the character I had in mind - either of those win harder than superior Themes. So please, make Themes cooler than just picking feats or I won't use them at all.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 9:09AM
#64
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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I guess it really depends on how themes are tied into the other mechanical elements. If they are simply a pre-fab selection of feats to better help beginner players, I see that as a good thing. If taking feats from the same theme yield a kind of synergy/group bonus, then that can also be a good thing. If you can mix and match theme feats to create a character concept, and the character isn't notably overpowered relative to other builds, then I count that as a success.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 2:20PM
#65
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So, themes take the "fun character option vs optimization" feat scenario I hated in 3.5, snaps together some presets, and throws in the fluff I ignored from 4e themes?
Well dang. I was kind of hyped for themes being core in D&DN. Looks like I got my hopes up for literally nothing. I don't care about that fluff and will almost always hand pick my own feats. I wanted a character resource dedicated to fluff. The article mentioned, "…just as themes in Dark Sun are a delivery device for some powers." But that is not the part I liked about themes in 4e at all, I liked the little feature(s) I gained.
Example, I'm building an undead insect swarm character in 4e. I'm taking the former rat pack member theme (or something like that, Ex Powder Gangers member? I forget) just for the ability to turn into a rat. I'm going to refluff it as my character diving onto the ground in a splash of vermin that scurry under the door/into a hole in the wall/whatever.
It is a neat lil ability that really makes the swarm idea feel like more than just some combat effects. I would't swap out a power or spend a feat on it, though. I'm already grabbing multiclass vampire for the undead thing, I need to put SOME resources into optimization. (really, swarm druid.) This is where the value of themes are IMO, a resource that is meant to be used to flush out a character idea.
Oh well, although I'm sad I got hyped up for something that didn't pan out as I hoped, it's not an actual loss. Pathfinder doesn't have such a resource either, and that's what I'm holding off on buying to see if D&DN can create the experience I want. And who knows, maybe when I see how themes/feats turn out it'll still be awesome… This is the third time I've told myself that.
What I think the Wilder Design Goals should be. Psionic Homebrew Mk2! Changed core, Focus Points, Psionic Potentials, stuff! Very basic core stuff. :P Homebrew Psionics blog posts archive: Spoiler:
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UPDATED Dec/18/2012: BAMN! Random update with a modest amount of hard rules for Animal Affinity, Telepathy, and Telekinesis. ADDED: Discipline Burn and more "soft" ideas.
Dec/13/2012: Small Psionics Homebrew Update, now that I'm done with Finals.
Really old.
Nov/02/2012:
I'm working on a homebrew Wilder, and so a homebrew Psionics system. Here's a 3 part post with info on where I am in the design process.
Part 1, Hard rules/example soulknife discipline: Link.
Part 2, Basic ideas/goals on basic numbers and classes: Link.
Part 3, Direction/ideas I want to take with specific disciplines: Link.:3
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 6:01PM
#66
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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It is a neat lil ability that really makes the swarm idea feel like more than just some combat effects. I would't swap out a power or spend a feat on it, though. I'm already grabbing multiclass vampire for the undead thing, I need to put SOME resources into optimization. (really, swarm druid.) This is where the value of themes are IMO, a resource that is meant to be used to flush out a character idea.
Power balance isn't about how a power/feat/resource/theme/whatever is designed to be used, it is a matter of how to can be used. The optimizers treat themes in 4e as just another resource to optimize and pick from a handful that increase their combat effectiveness directly.
That is why so many people have suggested some sort of division between combat and non-combat resources. Without something set aside for non-combat options, the combat options tend to crowd out the non-combat ones.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 6:59PM
#67
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Example, I'm building an undead insect swarm character in 4e. I'm taking the former rat pack member theme (or something like that, Ex Powder Gangers member? I forget) just for the ability to turn into a rat. I'm going to refluff it as my character diving onto the ground in a splash of vermin that scurry under the door/into a hole in the wall/whatever.
That sounds creepily awesome.
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1 year ago ::
May 02, 2012 - 7:14PM
#68
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2005
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Power balance isn't about how a power/feat/resource/theme/whatever is designed to be used, it is a matter of how to can be used. The optimizers treat themes in 4e as just another resource to optimize and pick from a handful that increase their combat effectiveness directly.
That is why so many people have suggested some sort of division between combat and non-combat resources. Without something set aside for non-combat options, the combat options tend to crowd out the non-combat ones.
They dropped the ball, IMO, with themes in 4e by making a majority of them awesome combat powers. I was hoping they would make them similar in 5e to classes, but with out-of-combat powers.
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 4:02PM
#69
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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It is a neat lil ability that really makes the swarm idea feel like more than just some combat effects. I would't swap out a power or spend a feat on it, though. I'm already grabbing multiclass vampire for the undead thing, I need to put SOME resources into optimization. (really, swarm druid.) This is where the value of themes are IMO, a resource that is meant to be used to flush out a character idea.
Power balance isn't about how a power/feat/resource/theme/whatever is designed to be used, it is a matter of how to can be used. The optimizers treat themes in 4e as just another resource to optimize and pick from a handful that increase their combat effectiveness directly.
That is why so many people have suggested some sort of division between combat and non-combat resources. Without something set aside for non-combat options, the combat options tend to crowd out the non-combat ones.
Though funny enough, I really love the Scholar theme, and have suggested it and the Alchemist theme to players. They've got enough combat stuff, they could use some more other things. I figured that's how themes work. Sure, I could CharOp my guy to be the biggest min-max in town, but since CharOp is largely theoretical anyway, I see no point in not making the character I want. Anyone who ever expects Char Op to turn out characters that put character before power level is just silly.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 6:20PM
#70
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2007
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...it now longer has any real value except as a guide for noobs.
What the hell is so wrong wth that?
I'm curious about that myself.
Still waiting for an answer, it seems.
There is nothing wrong with noob guides.
However, it seems instead of anthing resembling 4e themes like the name would suggest, its just a longer version of the "suggested feats/powers' section in the PHB1 with some fluff.
WoTC used to talk about themes being the "third pillar" in character design alongside race and class.
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