|
1 year ago ::
Apr 29, 2012 - 9:46PM
#1
|
|
|
Ask any 4th edition player what their least favorite part of 4e was and there is a good chance you will hear "feat taxes." Everyone loves choice and flexibility so we all hate it when some of our precious few feat choices are taken away. But while it is easy to say "no feat taxes" it is much harder to actually implement this ideal.
Feat taxes in 4e generally came from 2 things. The primary cause was simply things being overlooked by the design team. Things like failing to give a melee basic attack to swordmages/battleminds. Or failing to realize the defenses/weapon scaling problem. Now I'd like to think they won't make the same mistakes twice, but odds are if they don't make those mistakes they will make others instead. It is kind of inevitable in a game with this many different rule sources. The secondary cause is the abundance of rule sources adding overpowered feats (feats so powerful they end up being essentially required). Once again, you can't simply say "don't make over powered feats." In both these cases the solution isn't to hope these feats won't be created it is to fix them if they are.
In 4th edition, WotC made a decision to release a Rules Compendium which was the official rules source; so official it was never changed/updated. They also tried to minimize the updates to other rule books by publishing fixes in the form of new rules (expertise feats for example) instead of making changes to the old rules. This is somewhat understandable, people like their nice hard bound books. However...
We have the internet. Everyone I play with loves using the Character Builder and Compendium because they are extremely easy to use and have all the resources combined into one convient location. And the truth is that while we own a number of the books, most of the time we don't use them. Obviously, WotC wants to keep publishing books (to make money), but given how many people are using online resources anyway there is no reason they can't release updates online. If WotC is willing to give everyone access to the updates, they can fix the feat tax problem for good.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 29, 2012 - 10:49PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2010
|
There has to be a willongness to admit to mistakes first. By the way Battleminds have yet to get their mba fix regardless of being promised before the release of essentials.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 12:19AM
#3
|
Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
|
It already is. (Updated online that is) www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/u...Its free of charge in PDF format. This is telling them 'Please have Strength be part of DnD Next!' its stating the obvious that already exsists. It also will not prevent feat taxes, because not everyone A). utilizes B). Has Acces to the updates. Therfor; feat taxes will continue as they offer a way for people who don't utilize or have access to the updates to fix their characters. Updates/Errata is notorious for causing confusion in printed games, especially in RPGs. That is why they don't fix through errata unless the situation is bad enough to demand it.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 5:45PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
|
It already is. (Updated online that is)
www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/u...
Its free of charge in PDF format.
This is telling them 'Please have Strength be part of DnD Next!' its stating the obvious that already exsists.
It also will not prevent feat taxes, because not everyone A). utilizes B). Has Acces to the updates.
Therfor; feat taxes will continue as they offer a way for people who don't utilize or have access to the updates to fix their characters. Updates/Errata is notorious for causing confusion in printed games, especially in RPGs. That is why they don't fix through errata unless the situation is bad enough to demand it.
...I'm sorry, did you play 4e? Errata wasn't sporadic and rare. It's a monthly event for us, and was used to patch and fix overpowered builds and feats. It was also used to patch skill challenges and stealth rules. Errata. That not everyone has access to and they rarely use to fix print books. Wizard spells got new school keywords? We didn't reprint all of the wizard's spells, we just errata'd the ones that didn't have it, because it was a major nerf to the Mage and other subclasses who relied on those keywords to pick spells. Kulkor Arms Master overpowered since the release of Essentials, and it's appearance in the Martial Power 2 sourcebook? It can make wizards into top-notch strikers with competitive DPR. Using MBAs. Fixed via errata and not patch-fixing it through feats.
So, no. Feat Taxes to fix these are not okay. If they don't work out of the box as well as other classes, you fix it so they do without forcing the player to spend more resources to shore up that disadvantage.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 6:24PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
|
Feat taxes are the symptom, not the disease. The root problem is a math error. Fix the math error, and feat taxes go away.
This isn't a particularly deep topic.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 7:20PM
#6
|
|
|
Feat taxes are the symptom, not the disease. The root problem is a math error. Fix the math error, and feat taxes go away.
This is actually my point. Feat taxes are the symptom of WotC not being willing to update classes fully with errata. And the solution is simple. Be willing to publish full updates online.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
Apr 30, 2012 - 9:09PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
May 18, 2002
|
Seems to me like this current 'starting over' is essentially super-errata.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 01, 2012 - 6:20PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2012
|
There are going to be a certain number of mistakes in any addition of the game and eretta will always be necssisary. The trick is to avoid the serious errors, there are going to be some typoes that effect rules interpartation and there will even be an occasional serious omission. The main thing is to avoid core rules mechanics that are open to broad interpretation and to be as précises as possible in your articulation of core mechanics. If this is done the small errors can be fixed quickly and efficiently with a (hopefully a very small pdf ) rules update. Long gapes between rules fixes was one thing a lot of 4e folks got frustrated with.
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 6:22PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2010
|
What I'd like to see is a way to access an updated version of any book through the Wizards website, insteading of comparing my handbook to the errata and memorising which passages are changed (Or worse... Modifying my text!). Attach to each book a unique pin number. At any one time, that pin number can only be accessed through the website at one ISP as a PDF, which contains all the updated errata already written in. Furthermore, so much should be advertised in the book--The effect? Many people will come to the website for the most up-to-date books and join in with the community, as well as potentially creating new DDI subscriptions.
It will never happen, though. The infrastructure required is far above what Wizards or Hasbro is willing to do, even if it would serve as a huge step forward in terms of customer service and rules delivery. I would love to see it, and it would certainly encourage me to buy more books, but alas...
http://i1003.photobucket.com/albums/af156/Tom_Shambles92/DrSeuss.jpg
http://www.last.fm/user/Pogo92
Endorsed by the C.C.A.A. Booty Patrol.
"If all the classes can compete on equal footing in a combat situation then it becomes less about "Which is the best" and more about "Which conveys the character I want to play"." - Areleth
|
|
|
|
1 year ago ::
May 03, 2012 - 6:29PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2007
|
There are going to be a certain number of mistakes in any addition of the game and eretta will always be necssisary. The trick is to avoid the serious errors, there are going to be some typoes that effect rules interpartation and there will even be an occasional serious omission. The main thing is to avoid core rules mechanics that are open to broad interpretation and to be as précises as possible in your articulation of core mechanics. If this is done the small errors can be fixed quickly and efficiently with a (hopefully a very small pdf ) rules update. Long gapes between rules fixes was one thing a lot of 4e folks got frustrated with.
The long gaps only showed up in the past year or so. Some things however, have taken oddly long to fix (Demigod, KAM) while other things get fixed shockingly fast (what was so wrong about an item giving dex-based classes a MBA on par with strength classes?)
The problem is fixing errors in the system via feats or character options. Having to "power game" to make your assassin actually be good at killing things compared the guy who's supposed to be defending you is sad. Math errors have been one thing, but some classes have some issues that have been crudely fixed by forcing the player to take feats. Another good example is Strength based paladins needing a feat for their mark to decent damage.
However, essentials was the perfect time to fix 4e's math errors, and yet they decided to print more expertise feats.
|
|
|
