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Switch to Forum Live View Which class get's which sub-system?
1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:08AM #31
Garthanos
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 17,736
Even vancian per encounter is probably closer to Jack Vance, vancian, you could re-memorize based on having a short break to do so, ie yes I am feeling imagination impaired today.. making presumptions based on the issues.

Improvisation in 4e: Improv. Attacks(by wrecan) - Fave 4E Improvisations

The Non-combatant Adventurer

Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness

Dynamic Reflavoring : The Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:16AM #32
Ed_Warlord
Date Joined: Feb 13, 2012
Posts: 658

Apr 28, 2012 -- 8:52AM, Gnarl wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that there might be version of D&D where everybody does something cool at every combat? (and no, that's not 4th edition).


How is that not exactly 4e?  Every class has cool powers that are available in every combat.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:47AM #33
Garthanos
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 17,736
Its similar to 4e with everything dialed back to encounters.

He was envisioning where there werent any dailies or the closest to one was useable each encounter, I got monovision because the vancian magic of previous editions had its finger in my eye.

Improvisation in 4e: Improv. Attacks(by wrecan) - Fave 4E Improvisations

The Non-combatant Adventurer

Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness

Dynamic Reflavoring : The Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage
Creative Character Collection - Featuring:The Faerie Master - Snow White - Joxer - Ironman - Elric - Bloodwright

By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one

"You have to explicitly give non-casters permission to do awesome, where as with magic it is just assumed they can." -Garthanos

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:50AM #34
Ed_Warlord
Date Joined: Feb 13, 2012
Posts: 658

Apr 28, 2012 -- 10:47AM, Garthanos wrote:

Its similar to 4e with everything dialed back to encounters.


OK.

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Join Grognards for 4e, the D&D that changed D&D.



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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 11:11AM #35
Gnarl
Date Joined: Dec 2, 2002
Posts: 1,476

Apr 28, 2012 -- 10:16AM, Ed_Warlord wrote:

How is that not exactly 4e?  Every class has cool powers that are available in every combat.




Cool is really subjective. For a lot of us, at-will and encounter powers aren't dramatic enough to make them fun. Daily powers are cool but you don't have enough of these in the game at lower levels.

I would be lying if I said I would enjoy a game with 4th edition style powers as much as a game where every class had pre 4th edition style spells every round.

I don't know if I could enjoy a game with something in the middle on the long run but I would at least give that game a try.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 11:14AM #36
Steely_Dan
Date Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 8,634
We all know about the every class included from a PHB 1 from all editions to date, but some may end up as Themes or what-have-you (I'm looking at you, Barbarian).

All I want is some form of Monk right off the bat.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 11:37AM #37
Whisspered1
Date Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 157
The sub system could be the same for every class as long as the way it used is different.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 2:55PM #38
psk20
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 2,226
IMO, the default/baseline should be as simple as possible, whilst still allowing classes to do what they're supposed to do. I'm talking essentials-style slayer here. Beyond that, modules could be used to add more complicated mechanics.

A stripped-down slayeresque fighter is pretty straightforward. I'm not sure exactly how much the wizard could be simplified whilst still keeping it "wizardly", but I think it would be worth playtesting and assessing whether there might be scope for a super-simple wizard that lacks a spellbook and potentially even lacks Vancian magic/AEDU structure - perhaps similar to the Bladesinger in terms of reliance on at-will attacks. Perhaps that's going too far! But I think whatever the baseline is for the wizard class, it should be as far towards the simple end of the spectrum as palatable. Perhaps a super-simplified version of Vancian casting might work as a very simple baseline mechanic (AEDU without the E or U?)

If the idea of modules is to start simple and then build up complexity, then the baseline has to be simple. Of course, vancian/AEDU should be amongst the earliest modules released - arguably IN the player's handbook. But I don't think any class should feature complex mechanics as their baseline, if the whole modules idea is going to work.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 4:33PM #39
Kaldric
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2002
Posts: 2,618
From posts by players in the Friends and Family playtest - Essentials Slayer is not the model for 'simplicity' in the core. The model for 'simplicity' is a Basic Fighter, Basic as in BECMI.

How accurate that is, we'll see soon. 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 8:04PM #40
Mablok
Date Joined: Apr 27, 2012
Posts: 503
I agree if the simple fighter is just a preselected feat heavy version then they'll have missed the mark.  Some people want something with few tactical decisions during combat.  You and I may want more than that but there is a definite element who want true simplicity.  
Moderated by ORC_Opal on May 04, 2012 - 02:04PM
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