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Switch to Forum Live View What would you like to see WotC do with melee combat?
1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:11PM #1
MasterRising
Date Joined: Apr 26, 2012
Posts: 3
I DM with a rather large 3.5 group so this may seem outdated, but, when I look at the abilites of warriors from the Tome of Battle compared with other melee classes, the ToB seems to own everything due to the maneuvers and stances. What would you like to see in 5.0 that spices up combat for the "fighter" classes like the ToB did? 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:19PM #2
Kaldric
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2002
Posts: 2,618
Provide a couple combat modules for the guys who want combat to be more detailed than the simple core.

One that's a take on initiative-based combat, like using 2e with a bunch of the options turned on, or early 3e, and one that's a tactical miniatures game, like late 3.5 or 4.0.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:20PM #3
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,524

Apr 26, 2012 -- 8:11PM, MasterRising wrote:

I DM with a rather large 3.5 group so this may seem outdated, but, when I look at the abilites of warriors from the Tome of Battle compared with other melee classes, the ToB seems to own everything due to the maneuvers and stances. What would you like to see in 5.0 that spices up combat for the "fighter" classes like the ToB did? 




They already did it; it was called '4e'.  The ToB was more powerful than the previously released martial classes, but that's primarily because the previously released martial classes sucked in a big way (and the ToB was still weaker than spellcasters).

Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 9:00PM #4
MechaPilot
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2007
Posts: 9,372
I'd like to see DDN give each class a base bonus to hit in combat.  This bonus wouldn't scale with level, so it fits with their flatter-math concept.  For example:

Wizard: +0
Cleric: +1
Rogue/Thief: +2
Barbarian: +3 (or maybe +2, but with an additional +1 while raging.)
Fighter: +3
Paladin: +3
Monk: +3
etc.

I'd like to see this as a single bonus to all combat, but I suppose it could be diversified into a ranged bonus and a melee bonus.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad Show

Mar 4, 2012 -- 5:04PM, MechaPilot wrote:

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:46PM, Warrant wrote:

so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.


Really?  So it goes something like this?

Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well."  Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh.  Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."


taking an argument too far Show

Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:27PM, Frostball wrote:

So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion?  Here's a scenario.  The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land.  They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges.  Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.

Part 1:  I didn't describe any of the hits.  What does he see?

Part 2:  Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up.  What does he see?



Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 8:34AM #5
Jim11735
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2009
Posts: 1,512
I'd like to see damage scale with level.  Like a Fireball damage is level dependant or Sneak Attack bonus dice.  I think every couple levels you should do more... in 4e parlance [W] damage.  Maybe up to like 5dX in the high teens - on every weapon swing, in addition to other damage.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 8:51AM #6
draegn
Date Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 336
^ I would rather see multiple attacks for martial classes instead of damage scaling up with level. If there must be some kind of scaling I would prefer the critical hit threshold being lowered rather than an extra [w]
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 9:23AM #7
Jim11735
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2009
Posts: 1,512
Why not both, or all three.  You can only scale down spells so much, at some point you have to start raising melee (etc.) combat.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 9:53AM #8
greatfrito
  • YMTS: XXIX Winner
Date Joined: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 8,269
Ugh, I really don't care for the idea that "normal combat" has to be simple roll-and-hit at the core, but "magic combat" needs to be a laundry-list of single-use abilities.


In a magical ideal world of happiness and fairies and perfect games that I would give good money to, I would love to see a "core game" that was pared down all the way to the "rules lite" level.  Something where "combat" was abstracted all the way down to "roll to defeat the enemy" levels, for all classes and concepts.  If ability scores figure into attacks for the game at large, the "lite" version could simply cut it down to "Fighters roll Str to hit; Wizards roll Int; whatever rolls whatever", with various opponents simply needing a few hits to go down.  No movement, no damage rolls, no lists of abilities, no mandated fluff - just pure and simple mechanics, that abstractly get across the idea that "I try to kill it with my power!" is really the same concept, whether that 'power' is physical might, or magical spells.

Then build it up from there.

Let players choose whether they want to expand on those basic rules in the direction of 3e's Fighter or Warlock - no limits; or in the direction of 4e's classes in general - a mix of limited-use and always-available options; or in the direction of 3e's spellcasters - just powerful limited-use options.  And all of that regardless of what type of character it is.


But, in the spirit of "Speculation" - I don't think they'll do that.  I don't think they can - even as a "simple core".  I think even the simplest of "cores" is going to wind up with laundry-list spellcasting, just "because that's how D&D did it before."  Fighters will be "simple", and an option will be offered to give them "interesting choices" ala 4e or ToB - probably even in the "core books" (whatever that even means for this edition).
Feedback Disclaimer Show

Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.

No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).

(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 9:57AM #9
AnthonyJ
Date Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 1,530
Melee combat should be about as tactically detailed as, say, combat with spells. I'm okay with a low level for both, though.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 10:08AM #10
Azzy1974
Date Joined: Dec 12, 2011
Posts: 851

Apr 27, 2012 -- 8:51AM, draegn wrote:

^ I would rather see multiple attacks for martial classes instead of damage scaling up with level. If there must be some kind of scaling I would prefer the critical hit threshold being lowered rather than an extra [w]



Six of one, half a dozen of the other... Whether through gaining additional attacks or a single attack with increasing damage or whatever... it's still scaling damage output with level (and, IMO, it's a good idea).

I agree with increased number of attack to a point, it may be best to pair it with increasing damage so that the number of attacks can be limited.

Playtest or get off the playtest boards.

---

I want justice for the voice that can't be heard
Vindication for every suffering and hurt
Let retribution hold dominion over earth
--Nemesis, VNV Nation
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