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Switch to Forum Live View Unofficial Poll: Resource Pools
1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 5:07PM #1
TomShambles
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 107
A subject a lot of us have seen on these boards but, oddly enough, hasn't been very well addressed by the Wizards as of yet.

Resource Pools, or more specifically, the division of the three pillars into different resource pools.

If you're unfamiliar, the summary is so:


At level up, you make selections of feats and powers to improve your character. Currently in the 4ed, you can get rougly one feat every 2 levels and powers sporadically. Those feats encompass everything from weapon bonuses and multi-classing to skill training and expertise. In theory that sounds like a swell idea, and the staggering list of options certainly helped make it a viable system. Powers as well had some utility "Out of Combat" options that could do anything from telepathy to magical vine-ropes. The problem? In practice Player's typically choose combat powers, often times almost exclusively. This leads to a over-emphasis on combat and meta-gaming and down-plays role-playing and exploration for those unable to resist the temptations of a badass monster slaying characters (+13 Vs. Will). Furthermore, such exclusivity can lead to uselessness in the other two pillars of play if you have a suave bard or skilled rogue--For the price of better combat, you can rarely contribute outside of combat.

As such, many players have called for a separation of Resource Pools. A specific system could entail recieving a feat every level up; Every even level up you get an "Out of Combat" feat, and every odd level up you get an "In Combat" feat. Thus, every character will have equal participation potential inside and outside combat. Another system could split this even further, with acquired feats exclusively for all three pillar (Combat, Socialization, Exploration).


If you want to discuss the topic, you can head to this topic here:

community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/...


I know there are some good blogs by users here for further (And more detailed) readings on the subject, but I couldn't find them. I'm sure they'll crop up soon.


As you may have gleamed, this topic is to vote! Post what you think and I'll update the results a couple times a day if I can.


In D&DNext, I want Resource Pools to be...

a) All Resources are shared in one pool, as it currently is now (4e).
b) There are two Resource Pools, In Combat and Out of Combat.
c) Each Pillar of D&D has it's own separate Resouce Pool.
d) None of the Above (Please describe, if it recieves support it will be added with haste)

e) "I'm in favor of two pools: in-combat and out-of-combat.  However, what I want is a minimum level of competence in each, with anything beyond that level of competence being a player specialization choice." - MechaPilot





Results



a) 0
b) 8
c) 3
d) 3
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Endorsed by the C.C.A.A. Booty Patrol.


"If all the classes can compete on equal footing in a combat situation then it becomes less about "Which is the best" and more about "Which conveys the character I want to play"." - Areleth
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 5:23PM #2
Qmark
  • vitriol and virtue
Date Joined: May 18, 2002
Posts: 16,540
I don't see how "Exploration" is quite qualified to be its own pillar, or how roleplay even has resources.

But anyway, here's how the usuall 'resources' generally play out, assumng pre-4E Class Abilites are essentially Powers (they are, really!):
Feats: Combat
Skills: Rollplay and Exploration.
Powers: All of the above.

In fact, I'm having a hard time trying to thing of a feat that's not somehow relevant to combat, or a skill that somehow is.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 5:59PM #3
TomShambles
Date Joined: Jan 19, 2010
Posts: 107

Apr 26, 2012 -- 5:23PM, Qmark wrote:

In fact, I'm having a hard time trying to thing of a feat that's not somehow relevant to combat, or a skill that somehow is.






Any thing that boosts skill checks.

Guild feats.
Enduring Stamina feats.
Learning and Lore feats
Skill Focuses
Skill Training

Anything that grants languages.

Ect.

Ect. 

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http://www.last.fm/user/Pogo92

Endorsed by the C.C.A.A. Booty Patrol.


"If all the classes can compete on equal footing in a combat situation then it becomes less about "Which is the best" and more about "Which conveys the character I want to play"." - Areleth
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 7:38PM #4
powerroleplayer
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 804
3 pools for me, please

Part of the point, by the way, is to encourage WotC to create more resources to use in the other pools.  Yes, currently, almost all feats are combat feats but that's because nobody ever takes linguist and skill focus so why would they make more of them?  And there are one or two utility powers that are useful out of combat, but most people grab the buff/heal ones instead.  If WotC forces us to take equal resources in each pillar, WotC will itself be forced to create equal options for us to take in each pillar.  They'll have to bring skill tricks back to give martial characters exploration resources, and maybe come up with a more interesting mechanic for resolving social encounters than X successes on diplomacy before 3 failures so that they have more space for the tools to interact with.  This in turn will help encourage DMs to build more balanced adventures rather than 90% combat stuff because 90% of the rules are about combat so that must be how the game is "supposed to be played."  Finally, if every class gets resources in every pillar, then every class can contribute in every pillar rather than fighters being automatically sidelined in social encounters or paladins in exploration.  
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 7:52PM #5
OleOneEye
Date Joined: Nov 17, 2003
Posts: 1,991
B)  2 pools, combat and non-combat

To have a socialization resource pool that is remotely as robust as combat and exploration would seem, to me, to require D&D to adopt a fairly robust social combat system.  I don't want social combat.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 7:52PM #6
MechaPilot
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2007
Posts: 9,416
I have to vote D.

I'm in favor of two pools: in-combat and out-of-combat.  However, what I want is a minimum level of competence in each, with anything beyond that level of competence being a player specialization choice.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad Show

Mar 4, 2012 -- 5:04PM, MechaPilot wrote:

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:46PM, Warrant wrote:

so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.


Really?  So it goes something like this?

Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well."  Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh.  Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."


taking an argument too far Show

Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:27PM, Frostball wrote:

So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion?  Here's a scenario.  The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land.  They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges.  Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.

Part 1:  I didn't describe any of the hits.  What does he see?

Part 2:  Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up.  What does he see?



Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:03PM #7
QuantumSunshine
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2012
Posts: 53
My votes with b.

I agree with you (and others) that non-combat feets and skills are never chosen, so they need their own category. But I think after that, people should be able to balance social and exploration skills depending on the campaign, and not around some abstract leveling system.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 8:28PM #8
Lady_Auralla
Date Joined: Feb 27, 2010
Posts: 818
My vote is for 2 pools combat and non combat, specially with feats and powers.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 10:16PM #9
Marcotic
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 1,138
My vote is for 3, its a lot of work, but its kinda neccesary. when I think of dnd I do think of it as one of those three things, and I feel that by introducing more mechanics to the withered social and exploration pillar you get more out of it.

Of course for people who want specialization they can award more/less resources per pillar. (ok so in this champaign, I want specialization so pick a focus and move one from your "average" pillar, 2 from your  weak tier per level, and add 1 to your "strong" tier

Or just add a bonus RP (resource point) or something.

Done and done.

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Get a little bit a fluff da' fluff, get a little bit a fluff da' fluff! (ooh yeah) Repeat

Unless noted otherwise every thing I post is my opinion, and probably should be taken as tongue in cheek any way.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 12:02AM #10
TheMormegil
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 2,064
c.
Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM!

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Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.


Ideas for 5E
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