Community

Apr 23, 2012 -- 5:59AM, Emerikol wrote:

Edit:  I had no opinion about you and this camp at all wrecan but your very triggered response to what I said makes me wonder.  People need to understand - if the shoe fits.  If it doesn't then no need to get angry.

My "triggered response" is to incivility on these forums.  That's what gets me angry.  I could care less if you want age penalties, or gender-specific stats, or, you want to ditch polyhedral dice and give everyone board game spinners, as long as you advocate for such things without creating straw men or implying that people who disagree are part of some shadowy conspiracy to ruin the game.

You're a smart guy and you have a lot of valuable things to say, but you know I'm not the only person who has commented on the fact that you tend to post in a way that antagonizes people such that your message gets lost in the tone.  The fact that you think my calling you out on this makes me a member of this "camp" of people who never want bad things to happend to PCs says volumes about you.  I have a blog.  I think if you read it you can see I'm not someone who thinks PCs should never have bad things happen to them.

Apr 23, 2012 -- 5:53AM, Emerikol wrote:

Apr 22, 2012 -- 6:59PM, wrecan wrote:

Apr 22, 2012 -- 4:11PM, Emerikol wrote:

I think the trend in D&D of nothing bad evar is really sad.   I hate that attitude with a passion hotter than the sun.

And you know what I hate?  People who paint their opposition with a condescending brush.  Nobody is saying D&D should have "nothing bad evar".  Nobody.  Stop trying to make your points by belittling other people's positions.  It's tiresome and transparent. 

First of all if the shoe fits wear it if it doesn't fit then don't wear it.  But you are just wrong when you say nobody want's "nothing bad evar" to happen.  That is a play style that is out there.   

There is obviously a continuum

Cthulu like certain death <--------------------------------------------------------> Nothing Bad Evar

People fall everywhere on that continuum.  

 

First off, can everyone stop spelling 'ever' with an 'a'?
Second, I disagree with you here on two counts, Emerikol.

1) Your basic premise that the continuum of play styles includes nothing bad ever happening.  That play style would have PCs hit with every attack (because missing is certainly bad), never get any conditions (because getting stunned, immobilized, even slowed is bad), never fail any skill checks (in fact, no rolls of any kind would be made, because if you roll you can fail, and failing is bad), and never have to worry about losing a fight (which would be pure description).  Massive treasure would be given automatically, and the day is saved!  Ok, to be fair, maybe people who play with their 4-year old kid would use this method, but that brings us to point

2) Your use of the word "trend".  You are implying that a not-insignificant and perhaps growing number of D&D players (and posters, because otherwise you are just making it up based on how you feel) use the play style in #1.  This is simply false, and distracts from the actual discussion.

All this aside, and back to the main topic, I see no reason why a special aging effects table couldn't be an optional module.  It might not make it into the DMG, but it could certainly show up as a Dragon or Dungeon article.  Furthermore, we (the players of the game) don't even need the designers for this.  Seriously, we don't.  Aging effects are primarily about penalties, so you don't need to worry about balance.  Just come up with something on your own, or ask for others to help you out in the homebrew forum.
You might instead want some benefits to come from aging as well, or perhaps you want it to be a perfect trade-off (you get some penalties which are offset by bonuses).  This too can be done yourself or with help from other players.  It doesn't need to be an officially published module for you to use and enjoy it in your own game.

My dislike of aging rules has nothing to do with bonuses and penalties. I think they overemphasize the concreteness of ability scores and they attempt to impose a single model on a complex, multivariate process.

For example, do people tend to become wiser over time? Sure, people overall tend to, though there are plenty of folks who never learn their lessons. I hope I am wiser now than 5 years ago and I was wiser then than I was 10 years ago. But am I more in touch with a deity? Am I better at using my senses? I see no need to conflate real-life wisdom with D&D Wisdom - they are not the same.

Physical ability scores might seem less controversial, but they are as variable as anything. While there are general statements you can make about things like hormone levels and muscle mass, they are not universal. Someone with my lifestyle is going to get softer and weaker a lot faster than, say, Jerry Rice (an American football player famous for his conditioning and his long career). Turning 30 hit me harder than it did him - the man set the NFL single-season receving yardage record at age 33.

We all slow down at some point, but how much and when is highly individual. I can see some guidelines in the DMG as worthwhile for some games even though I don't see any validity or realism in a single model.

Since D&D attempts to emulate heroic fiction, let me ask this ... how often does the age of a central protagonist ever actually matter outside of characterization?  In every movie and TV show I've ever seen, the kids are just as capable as the adults, and if anything people get more badass as they get older.  If someone is old and weary and frail, they're never a protagonist, they're a support character or plot point.

Yeah, the kids are more impulsive, and the older folks more dour and world-weary, but it hardly ever impacts their abilities.