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Switch to Forum Live View Worried about recreating characters
1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:33PM #1
Lawolf
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 4,254
I know that not all options will be available from the start, but at least reflavoring can take are if the basic options. I am wondering if there are any characters you think D&D next will flat out not be able to recreate. I have three.

1) a sorceror barbarian hybrid. He is a red dragon cursed to live in human form. He attacks primarily with blasts of fire and uses his claws in a pinch.

2) a storm genasi battle mind reflavoured to use lighting instead of psychic damage for mind spike. Using conductive defense he strikes his foes with an electric blade.

3) a pixie executioner with the ghost sound power at will. An encounter utility power lets him summon a realistic shadow image combined with the ghost sound power allows him to pass as human when needed. 

Anyone else have memorable characters that they are worried might be impossible to recreate with next?
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:47PM #2
halvgrim
Date Joined: Jan 12, 2012
Posts: 448
Are these 3.5ed characters? 
DISCLAIMER: I never played 4ed, so I may misunderstand some of the rules.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:57PM #3
Lawolf
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 4,254
Nah, 4e. Can't do them in 3e sadly. That is why I am worried. They are going back in many design respects. If they go too far back then some things will become impossible to recreate.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 4:42AM #4
BronzeBeard
Date Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 196
Have you tried building them in 3.5?
I think you can do it - just have to twick a hell'ova customizations for it to work and even then - it might not be on par with a simple fighter. 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 5:01AM #5
Agathokles
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2001
Posts: 1,486
In general terms, 4e is much more restrictive in player options than previous editions (try creating a Sea Giant PC in 4e, or a Pooka or any of a number of BECMI races, or any type of armored wizard).

On the other hand, the problem you have with your first character is that 3e multiclassing is broken -- it's not that you can't have a Human Barbarian/Sorcerer (you can), it's that a you can't take more than 4 levels of Barbarian without prejudicing your spellcasting power. However, there are certainly prestige classes that provide a draconic theme (dragonhearth mage, for example), and there may be other classes that allow to better model the character concept.
That said, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to create that character in 5e: you'll have the Sorcerer and the Barbarian, as well as (hopefully debugged) multiclassing.

For the other two characters, the specific powers may or may not be available, though the first is already reflavored in 4e, so you could do the same in 3e: you have genasi, and you don't need a Battlemind, since you've effectively reflavored it to something else. You could use any gish class -- Duskblade, Psychic Warrior, even Paladin (reflavor "smite evil" to an electric strike). Same for a Pixie Assassin -- you'd just have to take a few levels of an arcane class that allows you to cast appropriate Illusion spells (Bard or Sorcerer).

Moreover, in 5e Themes will have a much wider impact, so certain minor capabilities (like ghost sound) may be available even if the primary character class doesn't have it without multiclassing.

In conclusion, (1) your characters could be done even in 3e and (2) while 5e is going back to a more traditional treatment of several elements of the game, it doesn't mean you'll not be able to have at-will minor powers, multiclassing, or reflavoring...
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 5:11AM #6
TheMormegil
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 2,064

Apr 20, 2012 -- 5:01AM, Agathokles wrote:

In general terms, 4e is much more restrictive in player options than previous editions (try creating a Sea Giant PC in 4e, or a Pooka or any of a number of BECMI races, or any type of armored wizard).




In general I think 4E allows a far wider amount of characters - and right from the start to boot - than the previous 3e. The only thing you can't reliably achieve is a Large or larger PC. I have yet to see a character concept, barring the above mentioned Large or larger creatures, that you can't reliably obtain in 4E.

Combine this with the extensive imbalance of previous editions effectively negating an amazing number of options as gimping, and I feel safe in saying that 4E has been the edition where the most number of character concepts were successfully supported ever. Of course, this involves reflavoring, which is one of 4E's main features.

Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM!

Spoiler: Show
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.


Ideas for 5E
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 5:41AM #7
Agathokles
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2001
Posts: 1,486

Apr 20, 2012 -- 5:11AM, TheMormegil wrote:


In general I think 4E allows a far wider amount of characters - and right from the start to boot - than the previous 3e. The only thing you can't reliably achieve is a Large or larger PC. I have yet to see a character concept, barring the above mentioned Large or larger creatures, that you can't reliably obtain in 4E.




Not only. You can't have flying races (only "hovering" races like the Pixie). You can't have water-breathing races.  You can't have shapechanging races (only "cosmetic" shapechange).

Characters like the Pooka, Gremlin or Nagpa cannot be replicated. Character classes like the Vancian, or the Channeler Wizard cannot be replicated. Specialist priests cannot be replicated.

Combine this with the extensive imbalance of previous editions effectively negating an amazing number of options as gimping, and I feel safe in saying that 4E has been the edition where the most number of character concepts were successfully supported ever. Of course, this involves reflavoring, which is one of 4E's main features.




4e has the same imbalances: try a Fighter|Wizard and tell me if it is as effective as the Sorcerer|Barbarian (it is not). Reflavoring is beyond the rules, so it is not a "feature" of 4e: read "Color of Magic" from Dragon Magazine 200. At most, it is a preference of 4e players.

G.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 5:53AM #8
Zappy
Date Joined: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 595
I've never understood people whining about re creating characters. In college some friends of mine would re play characters, but they were always different, not identical. And if you are changing editions there you go. It's a new character that is similar to an old one. If you are in the middle of a campaign what's the rush? This kind of complaint always seems impatient to me. Or unimaginative. I have plenty of new ideas for new characters. I don't need to play what I've already done.
Because you like something, it does not mean it is good.
Because you dislike something, it does not mean it is bad.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it everyone's opinion.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it truth.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it the general consensus.

Whatever side you want to take, at least remember these things.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 7:56AM #9
Lawolf
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 4,254
I did try recreating these in 3.5. It flat out doesn't work.

Without at will flame spells he would have to rely on melee to much. He can't have an unarmed strike as powerful as my sorcerers claws. The spell slots and spells available don't match the theme at all. No flame spiral, dragon flame mantle, dragon breath, etc. not to mention the AC would be terrible in 3e and he would suck at both jobs if he went a few levels barb a few sorcerer.

The storm soul doesn't work either sadly. At paragon
I took shocking flame and lyrandar wind rider. Every melee attack I made did lightning damage. I even had a few weather control spells and rituals.

Recreating a character is done so you can transition from one edition to the next. Especially if the character has a lot of history and is great to roll play.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 8:40AM #10
Garthanos
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 17,736

Apr 20, 2012 -- 4:42AM, BronzeBeard wrote:

Have you tried building them in 3.5?
I think you can do it - just have to twick a hell'ova customizations for it to work and even then - it might not be on par with a simple fighter. 



Improvisation in 4e: Improv. Attacks(by wrecan) - Fave 4E Improvisations

The Non-combatant Adventurer

Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness

Dynamic Reflavoring : The Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage
Creative Character Collection - Featuring:The Faerie Master - Snow White - Joxer - Ironman - Elric - Bloodwright

By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one

"You have to explicitly give non-casters permission to do awesome, where as with magic it is just assumed they can." -Garthanos

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