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1 year ago ::
Apr 26, 2012 - 9:32AM
#21
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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From the linked picture, it would seem to be very easy for someone being garrotted to draw a knife and stab the man doing the garotting. Heck the man in the image getting garrotted can stab with his bayonette over his shoulder and get the guy in the back or neck. As I said, I imagine this didn't happen because most people, when being choked, instinctively reach to undo the choking, while the garotte is designed to make that impossible. But someone who could maintain clarity while being choked should be able to get a good three or four stabs in before falling unconscious.
In D&D, the "most people" are zero-level men-at-arms who are going to be killed simply by the weapon damage during the surprise round (and possibly the first round of combat). Anybody with more hp than that is the sort of foe who should also have the clarity of mind to attack the garotter rather than the garrotte.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 26, 2012 - 1:12PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
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Garrotes are designed to be a quiet and easy method to kill on the RP side. Yet mechanically it has not been easy or quiet.
Personally, I think it should be a weapon that can be used to instigate/in a grapple with the option to make a coup de gace upon a helpless grappled opponent.
How do you mechanically make them helpless?
In the same manner that causes any character to have the helpless status... I don't know 4e enough to speak about it, but ln 3e... bound, sleeping, paralyzed, etc.
picture:
imgur.com/5ZMlK
That enemy soldier is not helpless, and is being coup de graced. Though at some point he definately becomes helpless.
In that case probably when he is reduced to negative hp and is unconcious.
Playtest or get off the playtest boards.
---
I want justice for the voice that can't be heard
Vindication for every suffering and hurt
Let retribution hold dominion over earth
--Nemesis, VNV Nation
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1 year ago ::
Apr 27, 2012 - 7:16AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2012
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You could use a garrot to slice off limbs or at least cut tendons and arteries.
You should no more be able to garrotte a man's head off, or to cut specific artieries or tendons, with a garrotte than you can with a longsword.
If there's a called shot option in Next, it should apply equally to all weapons. Garrottes are built for choking, not for de-limbing.
meh? I was talking about a mono-wire. The equivalent is Vorpal or Sharpness, so correct, it applies equally to all weapons. Actually, since attacking with a Garrotte is so hard (same range and similar rules as grappling) the called shot penalties are implied. Non monowire (i.e. non vorpal/sharpness/wounding) attacks would be the tendons/arteries attacks that yield higher damage outputs. In my version, the higher damage is reflected by Backstab options - if you recall, one of the Polls by Wizards concered an alternate idea dealing with Backstab, with the lowest level of backstab/sneak attack bonuses available to everyone.
I think a Garrotte fits this mentality perfectly. In the film series the Borgias, I believe it's a Cheese Slicer that's used as an assassin weapon.
Options are Liberating
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1 year ago ::
Apr 27, 2012 - 8:59AM
#24
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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Non monowire (i.e. non vorpal/sharpness/wounding) attacks would be the tendons/arteries attacks that yield higher damage outputs.
Higher damage than what? Than those daggers that for som reason aren't sharp enough to sever tendons and arteries?
This seems like just another thread of someone who is enamored with a specific weapon or scene from a series and wants special rules to make that weapon superior to all other choices.
A garrote is a chooking weapon. You want to slice someone open with a wire cheese slicer? Congratulations. You just invented an improvised garrote that does slicing damage. I don't see any reason why the garrote needs to be more than that.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 27, 2012 - 10:02AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Garrotes are designed to be a quiet and easy method to kill on the RP side. Yet mechanically it has not been easy or quiet.
Personally, I think it should be a weapon that can be used to instigate/in a grapple with the option to make a coup de gace upon a helpless grappled opponent.
How do you mechanically make them helpless?
picture:
imgur.com/5ZMlK
That enemy soldier is not helpless, and is being coup de graced. Though at some point he definately becomes helpless.
Also, since I started this thread I have been working on a design where someone could operate a garrote one handed. Then I found out that I could get enough force out of one, using a vice to hold it and a long bar to wind it up, that it could cut through steel.
Shrug reduce there hit points to zero....
The its dead now, fast garotte kill thats a minon going down.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 27, 2012 - 4:39PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2008
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I don't think a garotte should be treated as a weapon. There should be a garotte feat or power or something that lets you make an attack against an unaware opponent, and do a bunch of damage or score an outright kill.
"So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been."
- Manwë, High King of the Valar
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1 year ago ::
Apr 28, 2012 - 12:32AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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It sounds like a wrestling attack.
You need a hit roll to pin your opponent, and then you need to choke him for a few rounds. During these rounds he can be saved by friends or try to break free.
DISCLAIMER: I never played 4ed, so I may misunderstand some of the rules.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 28, 2012 - 4:44AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Name a garrotte used against a significant enemy or a hero in a fantasy movie (its not common) ? Anybody?
@halvrim : probably as close as it will get.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 28, 2012 - 6:59AM
#29
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Garrotes are designed to be a quiet and easy method to kill on the RP side. Yet mechanically it has not been easy or quiet.
I would like to see all classes get a bonus to attacks from stealth, particularly while using a Garrote.
Um, actually the Garrote (or more accurately, the stranglewire) is a makeshift weapon for strangulation (or is some cases, the aforementioned monowire, which should be just wire or piano wire, occaissonaly a slashing weapon). The original garrote is a Spanish execution device involving mechanically tightening a leather strap around a prisoner's throat, crushing it. Despite it's appearance in movies and video games such as From Russia With Love (concealed in a watch worn by Donovan Grant), The Godfather, and Hitman, it is not a quick means of killing. This is why modern American forces forgo 'traditional' sentry elimination methods in favor of suppressed firearms. The noise factor is about the same and the gun is quicker (also despite what movies show, cutting throats aren't so quiet either).
I love the concept of the stranglewire in roleplaying and I'm certainly no simulationist but the garrote has been fairly accurately represented outside of certain mechanics (like the 1st Ed assassin percentage of insta kill, which could be the eponyous (hope I used that right) slashed throat or broken neck of action fiction).
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1 year ago ::
Apr 28, 2012 - 7:40AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
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I don't think a garotte should be treated as a weapon. There should be a garotte feat or power or something that lets you make an attack against an unaware opponent, and do a bunch of damage or score an outright kill.
There is a power that lets you make an attack against an unaware opponent, and do a bunch of damage (and possibly score an outright kill)... It's called Sneak Attack.
Also, dealing lots of damage/instakilling are not properties of a garotte--they're not particularly quick killing as they employ stragulation which progessively deals damage over time. They're also a weapon that anyone can employ given the right circumstances, which makes them better modeled as a weapon than a feat/power.
Playtest or get off the playtest boards.
---
I want justice for the voice that can't be heard
Vindication for every suffering and hurt
Let retribution hold dominion over earth
--Nemesis, VNV Nation
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