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13 months ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 12:25PM
#31
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Deadliest Warriors episode 7 of season 2 talks about the garrote. (the camera gun was awesome) I think it is also mentioned in regards to the Aztecs in another episode. I think the root of the problem facing the Garrote is that there are just too many hit points. " A creature with more than half its maximum hit points has nothing more than the superficial signs of injury. A creature with less than half its maximum hit points has suffered a few noticeable cuts or bruises. A creature that is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points has suffered a direct hit—enough to knock it unconscious. The attack that dropped it caused a serious injury that might crack bones and cause heavy, ongoing bleeding."
- Hit Points, Our Old Friend
Legends and Lore
Mike Mearls With the Garrote there is no superficial injury, no bruises, and no cuts. The head is removed in 3 seconds on deadliest warrior. He only had to reach one artery to complete the kill.
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Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.
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13 months ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 12:41PM
#32
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I say just make it an SoD that the rogue can use from stealth.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
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so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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13 months ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 12:46PM
#33
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I hope the assassins in 5e are better than 4e.
Spoiler:
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Concisely: I want a system where players don't have to pick between mechanics and roleplaying. I hope 5E fails asap so a better system can be made asap.
Spoiler:
Show
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13 months ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 2:17PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2009
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I'd just give the garrote a property akin to what 43 weapons have. Maybe something that improves its coup de grace damage. Or maybe implements something like a massive damage threshold.
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13 months ago ::
May 22, 2012 - 4:17PM
#35
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- VCL Emeritus
- The Inquisitor
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Name a garrotte used against a significant enemy or a hero in a fantasy movie (its not common) ? Anybody?
@halvrim : probably as close as it will get.
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Not successfully, but pretty close. Indiana Jones is sort of borderline on being in the fantasy genre, though, as it has supernatural elements but is generally action oriented.
Just thought I'd throw that out there as an example. :D
Quentin Small
WotC Online Community Coordinator
All around helpful simian
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 2:01AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Name a garrotte used against a significant enemy or a hero in a fantasy movie (its not common) ? Anybody?
@halvrim : probably as close as it will get.
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Not successfully, but pretty close. Indiana Jones is sort of borderline on being in the fantasy genre, though, as it has supernatural elements but is generally action oriented.
Just thought I'd throw that out there as an example. :D
That not successful but pretty close == reduced hit points a bit.
And also not quite in genre as an attack form.
You rather pointed out both the issues.
Beheading with a sword blow is more in genre and arguably only happens when depleted enemy of hit points.
Real people are minions folks ... no hit points... a garrote is a one shot kill so is every weapon known to man.
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 2:34AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2008
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I never saw why the Garrote should be so special. Like all the other weapons that can kill, main or hinder and opponent, it should just do damage like any other weapon in the game.
For those who like a little extra flavor, a Garrote could give a bonus to coup de grace attacks.
But for those who want it to be a rogue's SoD (as MechaPilot put it) or an "I win" weapon, I must disagree, for I can make the case that virtually every weapon known would have a way to bypass normal hp damage due to being "special."
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 11:43AM
#38
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But for those who want it to be a rogue's SoD (as MechaPilot put it) or an "I win" weapon, I must disagree, for I can make the case that virtually every weapon known would have a way to bypass normal hp damage due to being "special."
If casters get SoDs, the non-casters deserve them as well. I cannot stress that enough. The days of casters have to be superior to non-casters as written, and the only half-hearted attempts at balance become the DM's responsibility, are over.
You mentioned other weapons. Yes, other weapons should have variant SoDs. Let a rogue have a "from the shadows" SoD where they can either garrotte someone, or slit their throat, or stab them at the base of the skull, or the lung (if you want a save-or-suck version). Fighters can have decapitations and disembowelings for SoDs, and sunders or disarms for save-or-suck.
It's not that the weapons themselves get treated as SoDs in anyone's hands. It's a matter of special class training that allows them to make the weapons SoD capable.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 12:17PM
#39
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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Garrotes are the go to weapon to sneakily kill sentries, routinely used as such by special force groups in the modern world (post WWII), and were an excution device in spain and spain related countries (Andorra for instance only removed death by garroting in 1990).
It should be a skill challenge in 4E to utilize it, and it should be a series of grapple checks against the player. 4E is playercentric. The rules the players use are not hte same as monsters. Garrotes are out of combat used, as no one is stupid enough to expose their throat to being strangled in combat.
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13 months ago ::
May 23, 2012 - 3:45PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jan 19, 2010
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People want more out of combat skills and abilities, I think Garrote is a great addition to it. In combat, I can only see it balanceable via Coup de Grace.
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Endorsed by the C.C.A.A. Booty Patrol.
"If all the classes can compete on equal footing in a combat situation then it becomes less about "Which is the best" and more about "Which conveys the character I want to play"." - Areleth
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