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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 4:35PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 14, 2012
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In this topic I want to discuss races in our beloved game. I’ll separate my point in two parts, one being more mechanical and the other being more story’ish. (sorry for this last word, English is not my native language, I hope you understand. =D) Part 1 - Mechanics In another forum there was this guy asking for help because he wanted to create a druid for D&D 3.5. He said he wanted to do an elf and someone else replied “elves aren’t good druids”. He said it because the bonus elves receive aren’t, indeed, good for the class. But that got me really bad. How come an elf is not a good druid? He is the one who lives in the forest and, therefore, he should be a good druid. Part 2 – Roleplay Whenever I’m starting a new campaign and my players are creating new characters they see the bonus they want and pick a class. Few really interpret that race. I’m not sure if the problem is with my group and I really believe you all have seen something like this: “oh, I’m an elf, but since I was born in the city and lived among humans, I act like one”. It is ok, it is your background. But I see more of it than the elf who lives 300+ years so he is patient. An elf who also feels superior, at least intellectually to other races. In the end, races are the sum of bonus and a little flavor. The problem I found is in the way races are designed. They have bonus they get at first level and that is all. My solution is: -Races get bonus (little ones) as the character gets more levels. For example, a dwarf gets +2 to Constitution at first level. At 5th, he gets +2 when dealing with rocks. At 10th he could get +2 bonus to will to represent they classic stubbornness. And this goes on.. The bonus could be small but always represent something relative to the nature and personality of that race. In this way, as the character gets levels, the player will always be reminded which race he is playing and what does it mean to be a hundred years old elf. Also solves the problem with Part 1. I mean, an elf would get bonus on Knowledge (Nature) and other things that would be good for a druid or ranger. What are your opinions on this? Do you like the idea that races get bonus as they get levels? Would that remember the players what does it mean to be that race? Since there would be a new table for each race, would it be confusing? (obs: the levels and bonuses I gave are just an example. It could be discussed later)
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 4:40PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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They fixed this in 4e.
1. Elves are truly wicked druids in 4e.
2. Racial abilities remain relevant through all levels of play, and there are feats and other options to expand on those abilities.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 4:43PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 14, 2012
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Did you not play 4e?
because
1. Elves are truly wicked druids in 4e.
2. Racial abilities remain relevant through all levels of play.
3. Feats, and even class progressions can be opened or shut depending on race.
No, I didn't =)
But, to your point 2: it is not about being relevant, it is about remembering they what they are. Talents are opitional, so they won't really work.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 4:44PM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2009
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The problem I found is in the way races are designed. They have bonus they get at first level and that is all. My solution is:
-Races get bonus (little ones) as the character gets more levels. For example, a dwarf gets +2 to Constitution at first level. At 5th, he gets +2 when dealing with rocks. At 10th he could get +2 bonus to will to represent they classic stubbornness. And this goes on..
The bonus could be small but always represent something relative to the nature and personality of that race. In this way, as the character gets levels, the player will always be reminded which race he is playing and what does it mean to be a hundred years old elf. Also solves the problem with Part 1. I mean, an elf would get bonus on Knowledge (Nature) and other things that would be good for a druid or ranger.
What are your opinions on this? Do you like the idea that races get bonus as they get levels? Would that remember the players what does it mean to be that race? Since there would be a new table for each race, would it be confusing?
(obs: the levels and bonuses I gave are just an example. It could be discussed later)
I do not think this would do anything to help your issue. If you find that players are choosing a race for the bonuses, adding more bonuses would do nothing but make them more concerned about picking the "right" race.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool. | Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner | |
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 4:48PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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An elf in 4e has the ability to re-roll one missed attack each encounter.
This power is cool, doesn't dissapear into the stat block like + 2 perception (although they still have that), it's just as useful at level 1 as it is at level 30, and people usually remember they have it.
And really while talents are optional some of the options for this ability come very highly recommended.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 4:48PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 14, 2012
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I do not think this would do anything to help your issue. If you find that players are choosing a race for the bonuses, adding more bonuses would do nothing but make them more concerned about picking the "right" race.
Indeed.
What if the bonuses were just for flavor?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 5:04PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I do not think this would do anything to help your issue. If you find that players are choosing a race for the bonuses, adding more bonuses would do nothing but make them more concerned about picking the "right" race.
Indeed.
What if the bonuses were just for flavor?
Like the eladrin getting the trance ritual... and Warforged not needing to eat? Or even Deva reincarnating.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 5:06PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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An elf in 4e has the ability to re-roll one missed attack each encounter.
This power is cool, doesn't dissapear into the stat block like + 2 perception (although they still have that), it's just as useful at level 1 as it is at level 30, and people usually remember they have it.
And really while talents are optional some of the options for this ability come very highly recommended.
I think most of the abilities of the races are significant elements of the races and distinct to them.. and yes talents can make them even more so.. but arent required.
So many things were fixed in 4e.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 5:07PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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Then they wouldn't be bonuses.
Seriously, people who just wanna put together the "right" race/class combo aren't gonna start caring about all that other stuff just because you toss on a +2 to perform checks under a full moon within a manifest zone to the realm of the sidhe.
The best way I've found to get people engaged in their race is to make the race engaging. Elf PCs tend to come in two flavors, the human with pointy ears, and the tolkein. Tolkeins are annoying, I'm not sure if it's the smug jerkiness of the elves from the movies, the books, or just because these people don't know any other way to play elves, but they're no fun to adveture with because they go on an on about how elves are awesome and everyone who doesn't agree is a dirty goblin lover or worse yet a Dwarf. The human with pointy ears forget's he's an elf most days.
4e solves this by providing constant impressive and cool reminders of what your race is, 3e just doesn't support race as more than a footnote unless you shell out LA for a powerful race.
The best advice for 3e I can give is to make racial issues part of the storyline. If someone playing an elf was raised by humans he should be exposed to elven culture, maybe the magic sword he picked up in that last dungeon should only be wielded by members of an elite elven order or something and when someone sees him with it they assume he's a member, at least until someone in the know starts asking questions and then all sorts of chaos can happen.
Simply put peoplein 3e treat race like a puzzle piece because the rules let them and the DMs don't creative about making race relevant.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 5:25PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2005
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Anymore, whenever someone in my group runs a game, they let everyone just choose any pair of +2 bonuses they want instead of the standard racial bonuses. The result is everyone picks whatever race they want for flavor instead of automatically picking whatever race has the bonus that coresponds to the class they chose
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