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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 9:48AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2007
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In today's D&D Next conversation, Monte Cook revisits the discussion on the paladin and the cleric and looks at ways to differentiate between the two classes. After you've read the article and filled out the poll, come back here to share your thoughts in the larger conversation.
Trevor Kidd
Community Manager
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 9:51AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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At one point I thought they were too damn close to identical... Battlefield Roles in 4th edition gave me a reason for Cleric/Paladin/Avenger... now I will go read ;p
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 9:55AM
#3
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- Unconventional Mafia Pro
- Dark Lord
Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2001
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IMO, the biggest distinguishing mark is going to be the Paladin's ability to protect others (Assuming Paladin Classic, which is annoying but looks inevitable at this point.) because "Smite opposed alignment" has been something clerics have gotten on-again off-again access to in the form of divine or alignment-based damage. It's a very iconic ability for the paladin, especially adding to melee damage, but it's also not unique to the Paladin
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice." THE COALITION WAR GAME-Phyrexian Praetor Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill) Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills) Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill) Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills) Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills) Round 6: (8-7-1) [current round] Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 9:58AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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There are no problems with paladins that cannot be fixed by whacking clerics with a nerf hammer. 'Battle cleric' and paladin should be the same class.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:08AM
#5
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Date Joined:
May 20, 2011
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Isn't dnd next the all inclusive version? Aren't theme going to be present? So exagerate! Put more, different cleric and paladin themes, and, if sometimes they overlap, no big deal. Use the pools result as a metre to see what people like more and do it before, than put everything you can think about!
Ah, and I'd like to see some version of an evil opposit for the paladin. You know, evil campaign do have fans.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:10AM
#6
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Ah, and I'd like to see some version of an evil opposit for the paladin. You know, evil campaign do have fans.
Blackguards fill this role pretty nicely.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:13AM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 20, 2011
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Ah, and I'd like to see some version of an evil opposit for the paladin. You know, evil campaign do have fans.
Blackguards fill this role pretty nicely.
Well, in 3.5 it was a prestige class, in 4e I do not even know if they exist. I'd like to see some base class or paladin theme, like "what if the paladin serves an evil god".
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:14AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2011
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Mounted combat expertise is so situational that IMO it should be:
- A bonus so small it doesn't take away other powers from the class
- A balanced option that substitutes other powers (and a risky one at that)
And here we go again with "aligment as mechanics" powers. Does that mean we'll also see again the "DetectEvil_SmiteEvil.exe" Paladin? Because I'm not fond of the idea. Aligment shenanigans I just don't like, thank you. If Next includes power sources, enemy types and/or damage types I wouldn't mind seeing things like Necrotic/Shadow damage resistance, damage bonus against Shadow/Undead/Demonic creatures, "Smite Evil" being a flat occasional Radiant damage bonus to attacks and/or similar ideas. But aligment mechanics implemented this way, no please. At least not as core. As a module, I have no problem. Suit yourselves. YMMV
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:15AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2007
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Ah, and I'd like to see some version of an evil opposit for the paladin. You know, evil campaign do have fans.
Blackguards fill this role pretty nicely.
Well, in 3.5 it was a prestige class, in 4e I do not even know if they exist. I'd like to see some base class or paladin theme, like "what if the paladin serves an evil god".
There's a blackguard subclass introduced in Heroes of Shadow about a year ago.
That said, 4e never stopped you from playing an evil paladin.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 10:16AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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From the comments: The 4E paladin is perfect for me. He challenges foes to honorable duel, smites his foes, punish foes who get to his allies with blasts of radiant light, uses the heaviest armor around, slashes through hordes of enemies, heals with lay on hands, can trade it for ardent strike (which is a better form of smite evil)... Really, it's a very cool concept and has a nice execution at least in theory.
What I'd hate to see is the paladin class tied in ANY WAY to the concept of evil. Really, just get rid of alignments. Please? Pretty please? Ok, you won't get rid of them, but at least make the interactions with rules non-existant. Or modular. Whatever, just don't force a cool concept like the paladin to have anything to do with those blasted alignments.
As for the abilities. The cavalier theme steps on both the fighter and the warlord. The ally protection is a given, I want to feel like a paladin not like a random soldier that has a celestial mount and some random abilities tied to an outdated concept like in 3.5.
I'm very in favor of the out-of-combat stuff you mentioned because I'd like to see more balance in the non-combat pillars. 4E got combat right, now it's time to balance the rest too. Be warned about the last one though - teleporting towards the nearest concentration of evil - because it is an adventure killer. Seriously, think twice of it, it seems cool but tie it somehow: unrestricted teleport is bad.
Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM! Spoiler:
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Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Ideas for 5ESpoiler:
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