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Apr 17, 2012 -- 7:16PM, Acidicwindex wrote:

I just hope they don't remove PC abilities to make magical items entirely.  I love playing a mystical character who takes great time and effort to enchant an item.  While i don't want magical items too easy to make, I like have a set system to create items.  Wielding a magical item you put time and effort into building is fun from a roleplaying aspect.  Furthemore, playing an alchmist who brew potions is fun.  Potions of healing are also a d&d hallmark item for me. 

In 2nd edition it took a permanent constitution point to creat any magic item other than potion or a scroll. A mere +1 Item really sapped a creator's vitality, but then again there creature who could only be would with a magic item, so even +1 item was prety rare.  In 3rd edition it took time, wealth, and xp.  Almost every NPC had magic loot, magic items were not only pleantiful, but a necesity.  In 4th edition all one needed was a one hour ritual.  As a result, Magic items functions and utlity was greatly reduced.  I play very little 4th ed.  Thus i remeber a potion of healing being a vital part of every adventurer's equipment, and to me part of makes D&D D&D.  Remember that potions and scrolls are Items too.  One had items too difficult to create, another made them soo vital that they were the Biggest part of a PCs budget, and 4th ed made them so common it took the charm out of going through the effort to make them.

I am cruious what balance other gamers think about this topic

AD&D's 'Enchant Item' system always seemed kind of bad all around to me. You had to get up to a level (13th) at which very few characters ever achieved and most campaigns stopped before reaching. Thus you could go years of play without any of the fun of making items. Then the system had a huge chance of failure, and cost permanent CON loss. It was senseless to make things like +1 items and there was never any explanation of where those could come from (cause no archmage was ever going to waste a CON point on a +1 Sword, no way no how).

I can't comment much on 3e. It seems like the process was long, but also easy.

4e has evolved. It is true that the enchanting is a relatively short ritual. OTOH it is costly and as of the latest rules you may well have to find odd components and etc to make anything that isn't very basic. Items are still valuable and pricey so it isn't that bad.

I think something closer to the 4e way makes sense. Items can be crafted even at low level, albeit minor ones. At high levels you can make some pretty cool stuff. It isn't a walk in the park to do it, but once you have jumped through the hoops it isn't that bad. It is obvious why good items aren't common, but it also makes sense that people do craft items.

Apr 18, 2012 -- 10:21PM, Shasarak wrote:

I like players being able to make magical items as long as they do not end up like the ones in 4e where you basically just spend an hour and X gold to create them.

I mean I can not think of anything more boring then that - where is the adventure and risk?

IMHO though that doesn't really fairly characterize what happens in 4e.

First of all you can only make a few very generic items easily. Even then you can only make items which are relatively low power since anything nearly as good as what you're likely to find in treasure at your level is both over level and far too expensive to afford.

Secondly, if you do want to make more interesting items, and again you still can't afford to make the really interesting items or have the levels to make them, you're going to have to do exactly what you did in other editions, get the DM to tell you what you need to do to make them. This will usually involve quests for formulas and/or unusual ingredients, etc.

The 'one hour casting time' is the tip of the iceberg, nor is it 'X gold to make them'. So the only way it is that boring and uninteresting is if the DM decides to let you make any old thing and ignores rarity and if he gives out gobs of ritual components in excess of anything recommended in the DMG.

Making things like scrolls and potions, consumables in general, is pretty much the same story. It is pretty easy to make some very basic lower level stuff, but any of the more cool stuff is entirely at the whim of the DM and can require jumping through any arbitrary flaming hoops, or even not allowed at all.

Now, lets consider how this might work in 5e. Presumably you'll be able to make some sort of items. Personally I'd like it if crafting doesn't require always being basically an epic level caster and permanent sacrifice to even make minor items. Seems like something like rarity makes sense. That way you can make some stuff and other stuff is harder or impossible to make. 4e's level based ranking of how powerful the items you can make are also makes sense. IMHO something pretty similar to the way 4e does it now post-Essentials should work quite well. I'm not sure what other sort of procedure would be better. Spending XP like in 3.x didn't seem to be better (and was illogical as all heck). AD&D's method was WAY too restrictive. The fluff associated with the 4e method could of course be modified in a couple ways. Maybe there's a different ritual for each type of item for instance. They could make a list of possible ingredients for the DM to draw from, and a couple of examples perhaps. Beyond that I don't have much.