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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 7:54AM #11
JayM
Date Joined: Aug 31, 2007
Posts: 2,233

Apr 17, 2012 -- 4:23AM, Lady_Auralla wrote:

Me personally I believe resources should be split on the combat / non combat front. When other areas share the same resource pool with combat choices they get croweded out more often then not.


It has been my experience that this is generally the case. You can't get 100% separation because many powers are useful for both. Abilities like flight and stealth have both combat and non-combat uses. But there should be separate pools of options that characters are built from so that the ones that are clearly useful in combat don't push the rest out. It could be as simple as separating feats into combat and non-combat ones.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 8:16AM #12
emwasick
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2007
Posts: 4,043
This seems like it should be simple. Death usually happens in combat. I'd say "almost always happens in combat" but someone would have a lovely anecdote about a high lethality game he ran for 15 years without a single fight. Anyway, if a player loses a character in combat, even if he is totally in love with wonderful, roleplay-inducing non-combat customization, he'll think twice about those choices next time and maybe grab Toughness instead.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 8:35AM #13
wrecan
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Date Joined: Jun 23, 2005
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Apr 17, 2012 -- 7:54AM, JayM wrote:

It has been my experience that this is generally the case. You can't get 100% separation because many powers are useful for both. Abilities like flight and stealth have both combat and non-combat uses.



Agreed.  Anything that can be used in and out of combat should be skills tied to Abilities, because Abilities really define a character and are used for almost any action with a chance of success or failure.

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 9:10AM #14
TheMormegil
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 2,064
I think resources need to be split between combat, exploration, socialization, investigation and travel. Due to how game creation works, I believe this is idealistic to a fault, and can easily compromise towards a three ways split between combat, socialization and the rest.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 10:33AM #15
powerroleplayer
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Posts: 795

Apr 17, 2012 -- 8:16AM, emwasick wrote:

This seems like it should be simple. Death usually happens in combat. I'd say "almost always happens in combat" but someone would have a lovely anecdote about a high lethality game he ran for 15 years without a single fight. Anyway, if a player loses a character in combat, even if he is totally in love with wonderful, roleplay-inducing non-combat customization, he'll think twice about those choices next time and maybe grab Toughness instead.




Except that what more typically happens is he blames his dice or a mean DM or at best says "I'm a role player not a power gamer and I refuse to bow to practicality," and leaves the group in frustration rather than fixing the problem.  Designers, don't let your players make stupid decisions, they won't thank you for it. 

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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 12:33PM #16
rampant
Date Joined: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 7,985
Both of which are good reasons to split the resource pools for combat and social abilities.

For the sake of clarity when I say split the reosurce pools I mean that social skill type abilities and combat skill type abilities need to come from different parts of the character generation system, and you should not be able to increase one at the expense of another.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 12:38PM #17
Janx_14
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 3,449
Maybe their strange obsession with 1-hour adventures is shorten the amount of time someone sits around board while the guy who invest in pillar X does all the work.


Thats not to say I agree with having mixed pools.


I'm all for keeping them seperate. To keep them mixed only promotes this "munchkinism" people seem to like to bring up, and supports system mastery.     
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 12:41PM #18
Snotagnome2
Date Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 169
I agree that resource pools should be split among Socialization (skills) and combat (the other stuff). I don't think there should be any rule seperating building one up at the expense of the other unless you 'really' want a balanced system.

I don't think travel/exploration needs a resource split pool because, in my experience, gamers tend to handle that themselves (without much use of game mechanics). The two areas that need the most gaming mechanics, in my opinion, are skills and combat. Obviously combat needs more balance consideration. Skills tend to get mixed into roleplaying as well, and at the far end lead into exploration and such.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a warrior with no 'skills' who's just a tiny bit better at fighting, but I'm sure others might disagree. When I designed my own RPG I took the emphasis off of combat a little and tried to incorporate a broader range of skills/exploration based powers and skillsets. Basically this lets the player customize their character to specialize in whatever they want (exploration, combat, skills, etc.). Because it's impossible to design the perfect balance of roleplay to combat to skills to exploration for everyone; I felt it was best to include a customizable point-buy power system (with powers as the balancing tool) to allow the players and GM to create whatever 'balance' of the above aspects they want in their characters.

For instance, I had one player who specialized in all skills, another who went for magic item and gadget building, a third who played a stacked combat barbarian tank, and a 4th with a mix of swordsmanship and musical abilities.

I'd also like to see a de-emphasis in general on combat in 5e and more focus on the real fun of an RPG: role-playing, skills, exploration, and creativity. Computer and video games will always be able to run the best combats, an RPG should focus on the players and GM, making things easier, simpler, and more creative for them.

Thanks for reading.

David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG
www.amazon.com/Challenger-Free-Roleplayi...
David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG (free)
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 12:50PM #19
rampant
Date Joined: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 7,985
Since when is combat not a creative roleplaying opportunity? I mean besides in the real world where it's an opportunity to get dead. 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 1:05PM #20
Snotagnome2
Date Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 169
Combat is a creative roleplaying opportunity. I think it's just overused in 4e. There's way too much emphasis on it. I once took part in an adventure where it was 99% exploration and 1% combat. It was one of the best adventures I ever played, I still have fond memories of it even though it was years and years ago.

If you look at any popular fantasy novel, you'll also see combat is a very small percentage of the action. Take J.R.R. Tolkein, J.K. Rowling, Terry Pratchett, or any other good story you care to reckon with. The amount of time messing around and talking is 'way' more than the combat. I find the best stories (and the best RPG games) tend to turn out the same way. I know most RPGs need a little more combat (it is a game after all) but the best ones usually include more role-playing and storytelling. I'd just like a bit more emphasis on that side of RPG games.

David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG
David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG (free)
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