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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 11:30PM
#31
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@Kitakaze: Practical advice for you, because i'd like it if you had a fun game. Tell the DM that your character class is giving you far more ability to be effective than everyone else, and you're worried that the others will eventually start to get frustrated.
As a DM faced with the situation you describe (I DM'd a 3e game and fully subscribe to the overpowered full-progression casters paradigm), I'd see that the Wizard got a magic item that let him modify his Magic Missile on the fly, or draw his attention to and give him early access to that PrC that focuses entirely around force/magic missile spells. Give him a reserve feat that lets him cast Magic Missile all day. If that's what he likes, cool - make it work.
For the Rogue - you didn't tell me much about his playstyle, but giving him magic items that are universally useful is bound to make him more effective. Slippers of Spider Climb, Hat/Mask of Disguise, Dagger of Venom, Cloak of Invisibility. DM should give them a magical effect so they only work for people of his alignment, call it the Rogue's Regalia and have it granted to him by Olidammara or whoever the thief deity is - the gods have their eye on your group, and the thief-god wants his boy to represent.
The Half-Orc fighter again, don't know much about, but he might get a minor artifact that introduces some conflict and generally makes him more effective. Or, just give him some weapons and armor that increase his mobility, self-healing, AC, whatever. Give him a totem that only works for those of Orcish blood, that allows him to slowly assume the powers of an Aspect of Gruumsh as he levels up.
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Make the changes gradually. First the wizard gets the item, then his focus on the single spell lets him learn a new trick with it, then more and more. The Rogue has a dream-sending from a servitor of Olidammara, and gets one item, with the promise of more to come if he's worthy. The half-orc picks up the totem or whatever, and starts to change slowly.
When the other characters reach near-parity with you, the changes slow down, and let them keep pace. That way, no one change goes too far and throws everything out of whack. During this time, the DM is gauging how well you're handling fights, and starts upping the ante to keep things challenging.
Yeah, druids in 3e are, in my opinion, more than a whisker OP. Resolution of the problem is not impossible - fixing it can actually spur creativity and be enjoyable.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 12:30AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2011
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@Kitakaze: Practical advice for you, because i'd like it if you had a fun game. Tell the DM that your character class is giving you far more ability to be effective than everyone else, and you're worried that the others will eventually start to get frustrated.
[...]
Thanks for trying to help, but:
a) I already told the DM that I was going to be much more powerful (and I don't mean it in a damage-dealing way) than anyone else in the party. I warned him about the problems with the edition, he still wanted to use the books he already had (although I prefer to use the online SRD, it's easier to search for rules, and boy, do we need to look up rules a lot).
b) During the last session we found our first magic items. He gave us REALLY powerful items for level 4-5 characters. A +5 greataxe for the Fighter, a Cloak of +4 Natural armor (and probably with other bonuses as well) for the Rogue (who, btw, with 8 STR tries to use sneak attack with crossbows, and be sneaky), a Magic Tome of +4 Int and +2 Caster level for spell effects for the Wizard, and a +3 Quarterstaff that gives 1 extra spell slot per level for me. I think I'm still getting the bigger stick IMO.
c) The problem with the Wizard is the player. He is really, really passive. Most of the time the other players have to tell him what to do. Do you know what he does with his newfound powers? Magic Missile, Magic Missile, Magic Missile, OH! FIREBALL, Magic Missile, etc.
But, anyway, those things that you say sound fine and dandy, but probably don't have anything to do with the world the DM uses, the story he's trying to develop and his way of doing things. And all those things you say, as interesting as they may sound, wouldn't need to be used if the system wasn't so unbalanced. If there was no problem, we wouldn't need to solve it, even if looking for a solution "spurs the creativity" IYO. I'd rather solve storywise problems for my character than systemwise problems for all players, if you ask me. But we're going way off-topic here. Let's get back to telling our experiences with wizards/casters.
And since I don't have more "interesting" experiences with the system, I'll try not to post here again.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 1:00AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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Now fully evil level 15 red wizard enters a tavern looking for trouble - tavern is more like a stronghold for the enemy.
DM has two 20 level NPCs in wait ready to take the red wizard down... cleric and monk.
Wizard casts maximized horrid wilting on the full room, to see who is worthy of a fight. That is 60 damage for successfull save.
Both "worthy" NPCs roll low on massive damage check. No one survives.
Detect magic... uu, new goodies for the red wizard. Bag of holding. Teleport away.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 1:10AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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Biggest grudge with 3.5e i had is that our high level gameplay often degenerated into scry-teleport missions.
Scry, usually on a known minion of a bad guy, teleport in fully buffed, nuke, teleport away.
If scouting was needed, there was a druid in the party... say... in earth elemental form to do the recon... swiming through earth. No rogue needed.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 2:00AM
#35
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Biggest grudge with 3.5e i had is that our high level gameplay often degenerated into scry-teleport missions.
Scry, usually on a known minion of a bad guy, teleport in fully buffed, nuke, teleport away.
If scouting was needed, there was a druid in the party... say... in earth elemental form to do the recon... swiming through earth. No rogue needed.
A friend of mine discouraged that kind of thing by having reinforcements outside the room of the scried enemy, and using dimensional lock once the PCs ported in. Nearly wiped the party with that.
Kalex the Omen Dungeonmaster Extraordinaire Concerning Player Rules Bias
Show
Gaining victory through rules bias is a hollow victory and they know it.
The argument goes, that some idiot at the table might claim that because there is a "default" that is the only true way to play D&D. An idiotic misconception that should be quite easy to disprove just by reading the rules, coming to these forums, or sending a quick note off to Customer Support and sharing the inevitable response with the group. BTW, I'm not just talking about Next when I say this. Of course, D&D has always been this way since at least the late 70's when I began playing.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2012 - 2:00PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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Biggest grudge with 3.5e i had is that our high level gameplay often degenerated into scry-teleport missions.
Scry, usually on a known minion of a bad guy, teleport in fully buffed, nuke, teleport away.
If scouting was needed, there was a druid in the party... say... in earth elemental form to do the recon... swiming through earth. No rogue needed.
The scry & teleport thing isn't much different than the Star Trek transporter. Now, I haven't played the Star Trek rpg, but I would imagine it works fine within the context of the modules created for it. I guess in that case it's just a case of designing incorporating that ability into your story/module.
For that reason as a DM, I never had a problem with it. I just considered it part of the fun at those levels. . In most cases it made my characters feel powerful and they enjoyed that aspect of the game. Never once did it destroy any of my plot or the story. As the DM, I knew I had to be prepared to incorporate that ability into my game the moment I decided to hand out Teleport and Scry as spells to the players.
I agree with Kalex, the Scry and Teleport tactic isn't always the best option for a party. High Level NPC will usually be prepared for such an attack. On top of that, I believe that it's the DM's job to exploit weaknesses and add surprises to the game. When players spend several hours at the table discussing tactics or planning an assault, the DM should be looking for things they missed and planning on ways to exploit holes in their strategies.
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