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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:44PM
#1
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I've seen a bit of conversation on this. Are you for or against lvl and stat draining monsters?
I almost never use them because of the character sheet adjusting havoc they cause. However they sure make players think twice about attacking head on. I think it adds another dimension to an encounter when players know that they risk paying a huge cost to achieve a certain goal. And that risk increases the less prepared they are to face it.
For those who are absolutely unwilling to use such draining abilities, could a substitute for the drain be acceptable?
Such as paralyze, disease, poison, etc. Such substitutions would need to be detailed in the monster write up and would obviously effect the xp earned for those who use xp.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:47PM
#2
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Absolutely against. Losing levels doesn't even make sense, and re-calculating everything as your stats change in mid-fight is a nightmare.
We already have a substitution; conditions like Weakened, or simply penalties like '-2 to all Strength checks, Strength-based skill checks, and attack rolls'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:49PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Absolutely against. Losing levels doesn't even make sense, and re-calculating everything as your stats change in mid-fight is a nightmare.
We already have a substitution; conditions like Weakened, or simply penalties like '-2 to all Strength checks, Strength-based skill checks, and attack rolls'.
Agreed.
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Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Ideas for 5ESpoiler:
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:50PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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Stat drain was a huge mess that contributed nothing good to the game. Wyatt, et al. realized this and replaced it with a closely equivalent system of conditions and penalties that achieved the same result without the disgusting mess that was ability drain; their solution was correct.
Level drain was a laughably bad idea to begin with, and I have never seen a DM use it, with good reason.
I can think of no good reason for either idea to return to the game, and I can think of no implementation of either one that avoids the incredible mess they create. I do not miss them and will shed no tears if they remain dead and buried where they belong.
-m4ki; one down, one to go "Retro is not new.
Retro-fit is not new."
--Seeker95,
on why I won't be playing DDN
| DDN Metrics (0-10) | enthusiasm: 1 | confidence in design: -3 | desire to play: 0 | Sticking with 4e?: Yep. | Better Options: IKRPG Mk II |
The Five Things D&D Next Absolutely Must Not Do:
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1. Imbalanced gameplay. Any and all characters must be able to contribute equally both in combat and out of combat at all levels of play. If the Fighters are linear and the Wizards quadratic, I walk.
2. Hardcore simulationist approach. D&D is a game about heroic fantasy. I'm weak and useless enough in real life; I play RPGs for a change of pace. If the only reason a rule exists is because "that's how it's supposed to be", I walk. I don't want a game that "simulates" real life, I want a game that simulates heroic fantasy.
3. Worshipping at false idols (AKA Sacred Cows). If the only reason a rule exists is "it's always been that way", I walk. Now to be clear, I have no problem with some things not changing; my issue is with retaining bad idea simply for the sake of nostalgia.
4. DM vs. players. If the game encourages "gotcha!" moments or treats the DM and players as enemies, adversaries, or problems to be overcome, I walk.
5. Rules for the sake of rules. The only thing I want rules for is the things I can't do sitting around a table with my friends. If the rules try to step on my ability to roleplay the character I want to roleplay, I walk. Furthermore, the rules serve to facilitate gameplay, not to simulate the world.
NOTE: Items in red have been violated.
Chris Perkins' DM Survival Tips:
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1. When in doubt, wing it.
2. Keep the story moving. Go with the flow.
3. Sometimes things make the best characters.
4. Always give players lots of things to do.
5. Wherever possible, say ‘yes.’
6. Cheating is largely unnecessary.
7. Don't be afraid to give the characters a fun new toy.
8. Don't get in the way of a good players exchange.
9. Avoid talking too much.
10. Save some details for later.
11. Be transparent.
12. Don't show all your cards.
Words to live by.
Quotes From People Smarter Than Me:
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"Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging..." -Foxface on Essentials
"Servicing a diverse fan base with an RPG ruleset - far from being the mandate for 'open design space' and a cavalier attitude towards balance - requires creating a system that /works/, with minimal fuss, for a wide variety of play styles, not just from one group to the next, but at the same table." -Tony_Vargas on design
"Mearls' and Cook's stated intent to produce an edition that fans of all previous editions (and Pathfinder) will like more than their current favourite edition is laudable. But it is also, IMO, completely unrealistic. It's like people who pray for world peace: I might share their overall aims, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for them to succeed. When they talk in vague terms about what they'd like to do in this new edition, I mostly find myself thinking 'hey, that sounds cool, assuming they can pull it off', but almost every time they've said something specific about actual mechanics, I've found myself wincing and shaking my head in disbelief and/or disgust, either straight away or after thinking about the obvious implications for half a minute." -Duskweaver on D&D Next
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:51PM
#5
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Salla
Is there a reason why though that such drains couldn't be included to be used by the groups who are ok with them?
It really does make players rethink how they take on a situation and makes that reward that more rich.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:53PM
#6
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Wow some quick hate responses to this
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:53PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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I like the stat drain rules of 3.5ed. It is fun to meet a monster that can make a lasting effect on my character.
DISCLAIMER: I never played 4ed, so I may misunderstand some of the rules.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 1:54PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Salla Is there a reason why though that such drains couldn't be included to be used by the groups who are ok with them? It really does make players rethink how they take on a situation and makes that reward that more rich.
Mechanics like that need to stay optional for two reasons. First, unexprienced people won't be able to use them effectively. Second, if they aren't optional we lose content because of it. For instance, if wraiths drain levels, I can't use MM wraiths in my game. I want wraiths. Just add a module for stuff like that and if you really want such mechanics in your game you can add them in.
Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM! Spoiler:
Show
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept. Ideas for 5ESpoiler:
Show
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 2:01PM
#9
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Salla Is there a reason why though that such drains couldn't be included to be used by the groups who are ok with them? It really does make players rethink how they take on a situation and makes that reward that more rich.
Bad mechanics are bad mechanics. If someone wants to shoot themselves in the foot, they can make up their own unbalanced nightmare for it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 14, 2012 - 2:04PM
#10
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Ok sure. Standard would be the non level or stat drain. The optional would be level and stat drain. Of course such draining options would make the creature worth more to defeat.
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