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AD&D had the most complex saving throw system, but some of it was useless excess. I didn't like Psionic powers or martial abilities being "save vs. spell", for instance.

I did like the idea that Psionicists had the best saves vs. petrification/polymorph, and it made sense they would get bonuses vs. mental assaults, but kind of ridiculous that their +2 Willpower would be somehow equal to the 90% immunity of Cavaliers. That's like a +18 save. I don't think a Cavalier's mind should be 9 times more defended than a Mental powered character.

I think some saves were specializations, like +2 vs. death magic, +1 vs. illusion, or +2 vs. Fire. These looked neat but on the specialists it sometimes seemed too weak. There should be a point where a Fire Elementalist automatically makes their saves vs. Fire, and the same with Necromancers vs. Death Magic. You could even go so far as to say 'a saving throw penalty' implies a difference/20 save for those who aren't normally required to make saves.

For instance, a Necromancer at 9th level might gain 'No save required vs. Death magic' but a powerful necromantic spell with a -4 save penalty might require the Necromancer to save, but on a roll of 4+ he succeeds.

These Negative Save effects could also stack with the High level caster penalties, so a 30th level penalty of -6 would stack with the above death spell requiring a roll of 10+. Then you could apply normal "saving throw bonuses".

Apr 12, 2012 -- 3:56PM, GhostStepper wrote:

Save DC or attack roll (depending on which version we use) should never depend on a spells level. It sucked hard when your wizard got higher and higher level and you lower level spells that allowed for a save slowly became junk because the DCs didn't scale with level.

sometimes you need something better than a .22 to put down the farm animal. Doesn't mean a .22 isn't good for other stuff.

I just replied in another post how I hated how unbalanced 3.X saves, a 2nd level rogue easily passed any reflex save (and thanks to evasion took no damage) while the rest of the group couldnt pass that same save at level 20. And monks that failed any save since they were all main saves was in so much shock he probley killed over. A wizard of 18th level would be a nice lawn gnome for a wimpy medusa where a 1st level fight can stare loveily in her eyes all day.

In second they were rather complex and didnt make sense at times but I do enjoy the five types saves over three (Me and my one friend feel they should make some type of save system for each stat or some such).

Between all the editions there is alot of hits and misses but saving throws sucked in all of them, I hope 5th somehow makes a complete 180 in regards to saves.