F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Paladin - CLASS Avenger - BUILD Cleric - CLASS Medic - THEME Invoker - BUILD
Ranger - CLASS Druid - CLASS Beastmaster - THEME Barbarian - CLASS Warden - BUILD Seeker - BUILD
Assassin - CLASS Rogue - CLASS Thief - NONE (it's the same concept as Rogue) Ruffian - BUILD Executioner - BUILD Shadow Dancer - THEME
Fighter - CLASS Archer - BUILD Knight - THEME Slayer - BUILD Tempest - BUILD Monk - CLASS
Warlord - CLASS Tactical Warlord - BUILD Marshal - BUILD Inspiring Warlord - BUILD Bard - CLASS
Psion - CLASS Telekinetic - BUILD Ardent - CLASS Battlemind - CLASS
In general, Iìd like to see as a class those archetypes that support a wide variety of concepts; as build single class-specific concepts; and as themes those concepts that are unrelated to class.
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Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
As long as the feats/class features are robust enough to encapsulate the builds and themes within, it would allow for a lot of customization and experimentation.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Wizard - Class Illusionist - Build of wizard Necromancer - Build of wizard Pyromancer - Theme, you fight with fire powers, doesn't have to be a wizard or even an arcane character Cryromancer - Theme, you fight with cold powers Summoner - Build of wizard Artificer - Class. This was a bit of a toss up for me. But I can't really see it being a Theme, because an artificer is about much more than just a style of fighting. It combines aspects of a theme and a background, so to me that says Class. It could be a build of wizard I guess, but that doesn't seem quite right. It feels too much like trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole just because they are the same color.
Paladin - Class Avenger - Theme, you slay foes of your deity, doesn't have to be a divine character. Cleric - Class Medic - Background. This would determine your skills more than anything else. Invoker - Build of cleric.
Ranger - Class Druid - Class Beastmaster - Theme. You fight with an animal companion, works with any class. Barbarian - Class Warden - Build for either druid or barbarian. Seeker - I don't think it is needed. If it had to be included, I would say a build for druids or rangers.
Assassin - Background if it is just skill related, Theme if it involves shadow magic. Rogue/Thief - Class. I combined them because I feel they are the same. Ruffian - Background. Executioner - if you are referring to the essentials assassin build, then I'd say Background (for skills) or Theme (for fighting styles). Shadow Dancer - Theme. This is a fighting style suitable for many classes.
Fighter - Class Archer - Theme, many different classes can use a bow Knight - Background Slayer - Theme for anyone who specializes in killing monsters Tempest - If you mean the two-weapon fighter, I'd say Theme. Monk - Class.
Warlord - Class. This could certainly be a build for fighters, but I think it represents enough of an archetype to be a class by itself. Tactical Warlord - Build of warlord Marshal - just another name for a warlord Inspiring Warlord - Build of warlord Bard - Class
Psion - Class Telekinetic - Build of psion Ardent - I never really saw this class as serving a purpose other than filling the role/power source grid. It didn't feel like anything. Battlemind - As the ardent.
Battlemind - As the ardent. (doesn't serve purpose)
Poor Battlemind! D: I think a psionic warrior class is needed. It really is something different, just like the swordmage (or other gish class), and it is needed IMO. Also, Psychometabolism is just plain cool! And I love the idea of a telepathic warrior reading the opponent's moves in his head, too.
I could make a similar argument for the Ardent but I kind of wish it got integrated into the Monk class, perhaps with a Mystic theme or something.
Are you interested in an online 4E game on Sunday? Contact me with a PM!
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
In order Class, build, class, build, build, build, class. Class, class, class, build, class. Class, class, build, class, class, class. Class, class, build, build, class, build. Class, class, class, class, build, class. Class, build, class, build, class. Class, build, class, class. 22 classes total. Anything I said build to could also be theme or what have you.
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You can't please everyone, but you can please me. I DO NOT WANT A FREAKING 4E REPEAT. I DO NOT WANT A MODULE THAT MIMICS MY FAVORITE EDITION. I WANT MODULES THAT MIMIC A PLAYSTYLE AND CAN BE INTERCHANGED TO COMPLETELY CHANGE THE FEEL, BUT NOT THE THEME, OF D&D. A perfect example would be an espionage module, or desert survival. A BAD EXAMPLE IS HEALING SURGES. WE HAVE 4E FOR THOSE! A good example is a way to combine a mundane and self healing module, a high-survival-rate module, and a separate pool of healing resource module.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think the concept of a 'build' is dead. If something is a choice, then build a theme around it (or maybe a couple of choices).
There are a few things that are definitely on the borderline. Paladin, monk, warlock, basically could all be themes. I suspect 'priests' in general will have some other mechanism for tying into the domain of their deity, it would suck for that to take up their theme slot for sure, and it isn't like it is really optional. Depending on how that works 'druid' could simply be a nature priest and neither a class nor a theme. I think most of the things on the more doubtfull side from paladin are pretty much definitely in the theme category, and I'd include the whole 'gish' concept here. I think 6 or so classes is probably quite enough.
what's the difference between Build and Theme? Explain it in Grognard terms.
Build - An informal collection of elements ranging anywhere from class, feats, spells/powers and in a few cases magic items that are selected because they enforce a certain concept or because they have obvious synergy. For example, to make a Fire Wizard build, one would pick fire spells, feats that boosted fire or evokation spells, maybe one that turned a non-fire spell into a fire spell or helped you overcome fire resistence, etc.
Theme - 4e's version of Kits. They're independent of class, and have a few other differences, but Kits are still a solid comparison.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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Battlemind - As the ardent. (doesn't serve purpose)
Poor Battlemind! D: I think a psionic warrior class is needed. It really is something different, just like the swordmage (or other gish class), and it is needed IMO. Also, Psychometabolism is just plain cool! And I love the idea of a telepathic warrior reading the opponent's moves in his head, too.
I could make a similar argument for the Ardent but I kind of wish it got integrated into the Monk class, perhaps with a Mystic theme or something.
Yeah, I agree that a psionic warrior would make a good build, but not necessarily its own class. I just don't think it is distinct enough for that.
@Shintashi: Build is your complete character. It can take everything into account including: race, class, skills, feats, proficiencies, and even gear. Theme in D&D Next, from how they describe it, will be what determines your style (fighting or otherwise). It represents how you do what you do. So one fighter might have the tempest theme, and fight with two weapons, while another might have the slayer theme and fight with a greataxe. Background (I know you didn't ask about it, but I included it for some of my choices) will be what determines your skills. It is what you are separate from your class. Your fighter might be a blacksmith, farmer, knight, medic, or herbalist.
