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1 year ago ::
Apr 05, 2012 - 11:19PM
#41
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That's a common misconception. Tolkien himself said that his books had nothing to do with real world politics.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 4:16AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2005
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but there's no good reason to make Orcs, Goblins, or Kobolds inherently evil.
Well, they were not inherently evil previously (at least in 3e), either. The "Usually" in the alignment denotes a general cultural predisposition or legacy from the race's origin. While over 50% of the race may gravitate towards that alignment, they are not restricted to it. Even beings that are inherently ("Always") an alignment are capable of deviating from that alignment in rare circumstances.
This is something I've always like using. I had an entire group of gnolls that were overall neutral. They were in a skirmish with a light race (the usual "good" races) over hunting grounds. There was an Army of goblins forming that were overhunting in the Gnoll areas forcing them to hunt closer to the human establishment. The characters figured this out and formed a brief alliance between the humans and gnolls who formed an army to take on the entrenched goblins while the pc's slipped in the back and cut the head off the snake. I still have the players message me from time to time on how much they liked that particular adventure.
Breaking out of the "norms" of monsters and having the players think beyond "Kill everything in the cave" is something that should be encouraged. While black and white has it's place, there is alot of room for fun and creativity in the gray.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 9:17AM
#43
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2007
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That's a common misconception. Tolkien himself said that his books had nothing to do with real world politics.
I'm sure he believed that... It's pretty obvious that his real life experiences colored the story he told (which is pretty normal, especially with such a traumatic thing as a war).
It was very easy for people during either world war to see the opposite side as 'evil'. Truth is, there were some right bastards on both sides, and the slaughter that happened is inexcusable.. But at then end of the day, you can't say that all the German people were evil.
Now how much this affects wether orcs are evil or not... I would say this is a perfect example of player/DM preference.
Don't make them "Always Evil, period". Make it depend on the world, the story, the DM, whatever.
If a player is dead set on playing an orc shaman called Thrall.. errr... nevermind. >_>
But yeah, wether there are beings that are Always Evil SHOULD be up to preference - I would have thought this to be pretty obvious, D&DNext considering. 
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 10:18AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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For instance, Tolkienian orcs are a wholly corrupt race; demons are as well.
So I just imagined those scenes where the orcs muttered about just wanting to go home but were forced by the dark lords leutenents to continue fighting ... or the whips in use to make sure they did, or the line where an orc was charging the elf/dwarven forces hoping to avenge the death of his "father". Tolkein snuck in bits of not so black and white if you were looking carefully.
You did not imagine them; rather, you exaggerated and misinterpreted them .
Oh not really I assumed he wanted to be home so he could bully and batter those lesser rather than be bullied and battered by those greater. And avenging a parental death could as easily be an excuse but if it is, then he feels a need for an excuse? indicates more complexity than the corrupted indicates.. though revenge is not a nice motive its understandable.
Either that or I assumed they were symbolic of the german people being pushed in to battle by Nazis.
Since Lord of the Rings is basically WWII, they were symbolic of the German people. Very LOOSELY symbolic. Tolkien explained how corrupt the orcs were and why. Unlike the German people, in Middle Earth orcs were corrupt and evil. Those that wanted to go home were just lazy, not good or neutral.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 10:32AM
#45
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Since Lord of the Rings is basically WWII, they were symbolic of the German people. Very LOOSELY symbolic. Tolkien explained how corrupt the orcs were and why. Unlike the German people, in Middle Earth orcs were corrupt and evil. Those that wanted to go home were just lazy, not good or neutral.
I would love to see the source for this, since everything I have ever read has never mentioned WWII (except for some minor reference's to his son's experience in WWII). If anything, Tolkien's experiences in WWI were an influence. But LotR was not a parallel of either.
Again, I'd love to see the sources for this, as it would certainly interest me.
There is a nice wiki dedicated solely to Tolkien's influences: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien%2...
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 10:35AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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That's a common misconception. Tolkien himself said that his books had nothing to do with real world politics.
I'm sure he believed that... It's pretty obvious that his real life experiences colored the story he told (which is pretty normal, especially with such a traumatic thing as a war).
It was very easy for people during either world war to see the opposite side as 'evil'. Truth is, there were some right bastards on both sides, and the slaughter that happened is inexcusable.. But at then end of the day, you can't say that all the German people were evil.
Now how much this affects wether orcs are evil or not... I would say this is a perfect example of player/DM preference.
Don't make them "Always Evil, period". Make it depend on the world, the story, the DM, whatever.
If a player is dead set on playing an orc shaman called Thrall.. errr... nevermind. >_>
But yeah, wether there are beings that are Always Evil SHOULD be up to preference - I would have thought this to be pretty obvious, D&DNext considering.
Pretty much my take... pretty hard for that much intensity to not become significant.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 11:33AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Since Lord of the Rings is basically WWII, they were symbolic of the German people. Very LOOSELY symbolic. Tolkien explained how corrupt the orcs were and why. Unlike the German people, in Middle Earth orcs were corrupt and evil. Those that wanted to go home were just lazy, not good or neutral.
I would love to see the source for this, since everything I have ever read has never mentioned WWII (except for some minor reference's to his son's experience in WWII). If anything, Tolkien's experiences in WWI were an influence. But LotR was not a parallel of either.
Again, I'd love to see the sources for this, as it would certainly interest me.
There is a nice wiki dedicated solely to Tolkien's influences: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien%2...
Yeah. I was wrong. I just started re-reading the LoTR and glanced at the section by Tolkien before the story begins and misread a section. My bad 
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 5:29PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2001
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But when monsters evil monsters like gnolls goblins can be a player race it's just to much.
(growl)
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 5:53PM
#49
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But when monsters evil monsters like gnolls goblins can be a player race it's just to much.
(growl)
Gnoll-pimp ftw!
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 07, 2012 - 12:11AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2009
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Goblins and Changkibgs okay a big part in Eberron.
Well tha fits the Eberron PHB if you ask me and not points of light PHB 2,3.
Or let's put warforge in phb4 with genasi also. In fact I'd like them to lust a mindflayer so I can play it
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