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1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 12:41PM
#91
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I think the easiest thing may be something like 4e's current situation, but designed that way from the start. Have a framework in place that simply ghosts the math of magic items in high magic campiagns, so that the same encounters can be used in low magic campaigns.
That sounds like a good solution. I don't know how 4e's method works, but I think you could do both at the same time... where the "inherent" bonuses and magic item bonus don't stack (use whichever is better). That way, low magic campaigns work, high magic campaigns work and there's even the option to play a low-magic character in a high-magic campaign.
Exactly! And that last part is a big deal, for me.
I want to be able to just play a the classic monk, especially in a high magic item campaign. The monk with few possessions to speak of is even more awesome in a story where the other heroes have a bunch of cool toys, or where those possessions he doesn't have are so common that it's like having a TV or a microwave. Even the poor have them, generally speaking.
Kalnaur: A glass or water is a glass of water, no matter how much you call it a glass of beer...I'm not really sure where I'm going with this...
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 4:42PM
#92
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XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
Date Joined:
May 31, 2003
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Magic items should never have been a part of the math that keeps a PC on par with the enemies. Magic items are supposed to be that something extra that can give a PC an advantage over an enemy.
I want my class and my race to define my character, not the items I walk around with, unless I make my character that way.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 7:13PM
#93
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Magic items should never have been a part of the math that keeps a PC on par with the enemies. Magic items are supposed to be that something extra that can give a PC an advantage over an enemy.
I want my class and my race to define my character, not the items I walk around with, unless I make my character that way.
Good for you.
Another response that shows why the OP is dead on.
This whole thing needs to be on a dial that groups can choose a spot on, rather than a hardcoded solution, with variant groups having to try to work out on their own how to play the way they've always prefered to play.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 8:38PM
#94
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Magical Items by definition are Magical rare/unusual- able to replicate something that cannot be done by any normal means.
Something that is commonplace is actually by definition the OPPOSITE of a magical item.
One of the major flaws (IMO) with 4e was the fact player could shop from books from items. The amount of treasure expected to be carried by every player in a group was factored into game mechanics. Even high magic campaigns I have run are low magical item games. A player could look at that page even years ater and recount the quets they had to embark upon to get said item, or what lair of what horrible beastie they killed to get at a horde.
The World of Warcraft model of " every item I have is a purple (rare) item and is part of a set and gives me a shopping list of fractional bonuses, to me pales in compairison to A paladin with a sword he has to seek out that once per day can burst forth sunlight to destroy the undead, when held aloft it can allow the paladin to turn undead as a cleric of his own level once per week and vs. evil is +2.
Spider walk boots for a rogue. Cloak of the bat for a mage. Axe of hurling and returning for a fighter.
How about a simple box when opened a flame that does not burn but casts light 90'. Or a rope that when laid out in a square creates a hovel for the night.
This game is about imagination, about fantasy. Keep the sense of wonder. Please. Keep magical things magical, and not a Bizarre of magical items to be tossed aside when something with better pluses comes along.
A magical item should not become a focal point of a character, but rather inhance a character without being the only important thing.
Examples, Excalubur weilded by Arthur, Light sabers built or given to Luke, Potter's wand, Indy's whip, ash's chainsaw.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 10:04PM
#95
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I've removed content from this thread because Trolling and Baiting are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here. Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. ORC_Chaos
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1 year ago ::
Apr 03, 2012 - 11:25PM
#96
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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(A) Magic items should never have been a part of the math that keeps a PC on par with the enemies. Magic items are supposed to be that something extra that can give a PC an advantage over an enemy.
(B) I want my class and my race to define my character, not the items I walk around with, unless I make my character that way.
See, it's funny, because from my perspective, parts A and B of your comment are entirely contradictory.
What happens when magic items aren't part of the math of the game? When every encounter balance estimate assumes that you have absolutely no magic items whatsoever? In that scenario, every magic item is important to your character. They're what give your character the edge. That Flaming Sword is what makes you unique, that Wand of Magic Missile is a prized possesion. Magic items exactly become a big part of defining a character and what makes them special.
But when magic items are common? When they are figured into the game's math? They're expected. They're just tools. They can't define a character, because they don't matter. There's no reason for them to be discussed or evem considered at all in-character. Running back for that Endless Quiver is unnecessary, because you can just buy another one in town if you really feel like it. What makes you special, what gives you an edge, isn't your magic items, but your actions themselves.
It's so weird to me that people think that making magic items common means that characters will be defined by them or that role-playing will suffer because they're all that people will be after. In my expereince, it's been exactly the opposite. There's no reason for character to be defined by of motivated by magic items if they're no longer special. Characters must then be defined and motivated by other things.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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1 year ago ::
Apr 04, 2012 - 2:48AM
#97
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When magic becomes trivial, it becomes less magical, often to the point of being mundane. I prefer my magic to be magical, not mundane.
When a player receives that Flaming Sword of Arkhet...
"What is this? A sword of fire? I have only heard of these whispered in legends."
or...
"Woo. A flaming sword. I throw it into my Bag of Holding Magic Items."
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 04, 2012 - 3:22AM
#98
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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I prefer Magic Items to have a sense of wonder and feel more powerful.
If that means that they have to be less balanced or more character defining, im good with it.
Many 4E Item's Powers are Encounter or Daily and last 5 minutes (Until the end of the encounter) to keep balance (think flying item for exemple) where in older editions it will let you fly much longer. One is more balanced, but more limiting too, the other is less balanced but more powerful and magicky to my taste.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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1 year ago ::
Apr 04, 2012 - 3:51AM
#99
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2005
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Forgive me if off base. But I think what is being said when they say that it shouldn't be added to the math is the removal of the +1 to +6 bonuses. If you assume that one will have an extra +1 every 5 levels or so you have to balance the monsters to take on that extra attack and damage.
When I envision magical items, I think of items that do cool things but don't add to the math. For example. Boots of Swiftness. Once per encounter you can move your full speed as a minor action. Cloak of Many Pockets. Allows you to store 20 small, 10 medium or 5 large items that can be stored or retrieved by a minor action. Sheath gloves, allows you to store one weapon in a transdementional space which allows you to arm, or sheath your weapon as a free action.
These don't add to the math of the monsters, but gives the players neat tactical choices, and aren't pidgeon holed into a single character type. Any melee class could use an ability to get them in the fight quicker (the boots), and anyone could benefit from extra quick storage.
Now you may ask what about weapons and armor. I've had a few ideas on this. One is a module that makes the players take feats to empower their weapons, they can give it flaming properties, or cold, or poison, the more feats they take of a particular type the stronger the effect. Something along the lines of a first feat of allowing the weapon to flame changing the damage type, to later on allowing for a flame burst 1 on crit, or ongoing damage. Or they can take multiple different types allowing them to adjust on the fly; immunity to fire, change the weapon to ice. The same with armor.
The other idea is to use a removable resource, runes, gemstones, whatever that can easily be removed from one weapon and added to another, probably with an associated gold cost. This allows the DM to have a monster with a flaming axe, but still allowing the fighter to take out the flame gem and add it to his sword. Perhaps higher level armor and weapons allow for multiple gems.
With that, the only thing that would need to be adjusted is HP and not defenses. Which in the modular world, could be nothing more than: "If you allow this module to be used in your campaign then add +x hp per level to the creatures, except for minions."
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1 year ago ::
Apr 04, 2012 - 4:44AM
#100
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2008
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Ya know, it should be possible to have mundane gear that is mystically powered (Aka Arcane, Divine Psion, etc) while still having truly wondrous, magical and meaningful items in the game, that are rare and only obtained by questing, exploring and adventuring.
Obviously, the lower the power level of the game the more difficult this is to pull off, but even in traditional campaigns it is possible.
So what if +1 swords are common, even purchasable at Magemart? If the War Blade of the Dread Lords is one of a kind, it maintains its "wonder." The problems come in if Magemart sells War Blades of the Dread Lord, or if the generic bulk items are equal to or superior to the "rare" or "unique" item.
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