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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:40AM
#21
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...statistically most people playing D&D don't play 4e (there are more people playing other versions of the game and pathfinder than 4e).
Just curious where you're getting your information.
I have no doubt that he's right. Of course, this has been brough up before so I will say this again: you can say that same thing about any edition; which makes it a meaningless comment.
There are more people playing other editions of D&D than 1e
There are more people playing other editions of D&D than 2e
There are more people playing other editions of D&D than 3e
There are more people playing other editions of D&D than 4e
There are more people playing editions of D&D than Pathfinder
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:48AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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Also wanted to chime in on the notion that these people don't matter if they don't vote.
IDK if I led you to that assumption, but I want to clarify that the bolded part above is not what I meant. I only meant to point out that some of those labelled as having no voice are simply choosing not to speak. The actualy worth of their opinion thus has equal potential to be either good or bad.
You're saying that it's just like voting. Don't complain about the results if you didn't participate in the voting process. You have a chance to speak your mind right now. When it is all said and done, that is it. Don't come in after the fact bashing it and complaining.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:51AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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@Bodyknock
I find that survey more neutral than most here I'd think. But statistically perfect of course not.
I'm surprised at the number playing 3.5 as opposed to Pathfinder. I know of two such groups in my area right now. (That I personally am not involved with other than knowing some of the players.)
The key would be to figure out WHY people like a particular edition. If those reasons are not mutually exclusive (and of course some will be but not all) then make a game that hits the right spot for both sides. If the reasons are mutually exclusive then create modules. Oh wait... that is what they are shooting for! Let's root for them to succeed.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:53AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2012
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You're saying that it's just like voting. Don't complain about the results if you didn't participate in the voting process. You have a chance to speak your mind right now. When it is all said and done, that is it. Don't come in after the fact bashing it and complaining.
An opinion poll is similar to, but different from, voting.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:55AM
#25
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Also wanted to chime in on the notion that these people don't matter if they don't vote.
IDK if I led you to that assumption, but I want to clarify that the bolded part above is not what I meant. I only meant to point out that some of those labelled as having no voice are simply choosing not to speak. The actualy worth of their opinion thus has equal potential to be either good or bad.
You're saying that it's just like voting. Don't complain about the results if you didn't participate in the voting process. You have a chance to speak your mind right now. When it is all said and done, that is it. Don't come in after the fact bashing it and complaining.
Basically, though I was attempting to be diplomatic about it.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:55AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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You're saying that it's just like voting. Don't complain about the results if you didn't participate in the voting process. You have a chance to speak your mind right now. When it is all said and done, that is it. Don't come in after the fact bashing it and complaining.
An opinion poll is similar to, but different from, voting.
Of course. The point remains that the people who choose not to participate have no room to complain after the fact. This is the time to let your voice be heard.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:57AM
#27
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You're saying that it's just like voting. Don't complain about the results if you didn't participate in the voting process. You have a chance to speak your mind right now. When it is all said and done, that is it. Don't come in after the fact bashing it and complaining.
An opinion poll is similar to, but different from, voting.
Of course. The point remains that the people who choose not to participate have no room to complain after the fact. This is the time to let your voice be heard.
No room to complain about not being heard. They're welcome to comment on things that could be improved. However, I agree that the bashing is just silliness.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 11:04AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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You're saying that it's just like voting. Don't complain about the results if you didn't participate in the voting process. You have a chance to speak your mind right now. When it is all said and done, that is it. Don't come in after the fact bashing it and complaining.
An opinion poll is similar to, but different from, voting.
Of course. The point remains that the people who choose not to participate have no room to complain after the fact. This is the time to let your voice be heard.
No room to complain about not being heard. They're welcome to comment on things that could be improved. However, I agree that the bashing is just silliness.
More like no room to complain about the outcome. Something you like or don't like making it in or not. Your notion of how it "should be" not being present.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 11:23AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2012
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i think it's funny when 4e people claim they have no voice. From an AD&D perspective, the 4th edition material sticks out like Vegas in the Desert at night - you can't miss it. Dragonborn? Warlord? Warlock? wtf? And there's all sorts of little mechanical ideas that are a nod to 4e.
The people who are really not being addressed are the BECMI/Arduin/AD&D types. Some of them have already passed away, many have kids or grandkids. But that doesn't mean they don't have purchasing power, and that doesn't mean those old school people don't have solutions to many of the problems faced by later editions.
The Voices of 3.5 and 4.0 are yelling at each other about what D&D should be, but from an old school perspective, we already know. A friend suggested the original writers read the classics, like Greek mythology, the story of Roland, european mythology, and oriental legends. Today, they argued, D&D classes aren't based on anything but warring opinions of what's cool and this indefatigable argument over Balance.
D&D isn't supposed to be balanced. It's supposed to be about how people can use their wits and imagination to overcome seemingly insurmountable challenges, and grow from that experience.
Options are Liberating
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1 year ago ::
Mar 25, 2012 - 11:29AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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More like no room to complain about the outcome. Something you like or don't like making it in or not. Your notion of how it "should be" not being present.
Well if you are active on the internet and care about D&D then I think you should be here. Lots of people are not #1 and those people might complain. The later I'd say should not.
The thing is... you always vote with your dollars. If they don't like the game and don't complain and don't buy - are we happy? I'd rather try to make the polls as robust as we can. Not sure how but I want more votes.
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