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Mar 24, 2012 -- 1:13PM, Foulspawn wrote:

Spell casters wouldn't be considered over powered if groups stopped chickening out of using, tracking, and enforcing material components. Spell components are the easiest way for a DM to reign in an out of control spell caster and 100% fair.

Except now the problem is the Wizards want to cast these high level spells that need incredibly rare ingredients that may require them to go on quests soley for a decnt stockpile of the stuff, which means the Wizards are hogging the spotlight so they can use better spells.

Mar 24, 2012 -- 2:57PM, Kingreaper wrote:

Mar 23, 2012 -- 2:48PM, Emerikol wrote:

I've only seen two solutions suggested.  
1.  Neuter magic into a flavorless damage an area all day power.
2.  Make Fighters supermen who jump to the moon.

Now I am open to other suggestions but those two are throwing the baby out with the bath water in my opinion.   

You have seen MANY other concepts suggested.

You have spoken at length with people talking about other concepts.

So, umm, yeah.

Well obviously my two points were summaries of the various ideas presented.  Perhaps it's my interpretation of the results but I'm the one that made the list.  

Either hard magic is gone from combat completely and the mage is pure damage OR
Fighters get daily spell like abilities.   (Whether they are called such or not).

I will admit to getting beaten down over the whole process.  I see a lot of intransigence on all sides.  I see it as a big problem for the 5e designers (the biggest if you ask me).   Most of the rest of the issues seem easy to solve comparatively to me.   I believe I could come up with something *most* people would like.  For this one problem though I haven't heard of a single suggestion that a lot of people don't like.  

So maybe #1 and #2 are the positions of one side of the argument I don't disagree.  I'm sure I could get some pathfinder guys to agree but I'm hoping that some of the die hard 4e people can agree too.  Thats the nub you see.

 

Mar 24, 2012 -- 3:28PM, Emerikol wrote:

Well obviously my two points were summaries of the various ideas presented.  Perhaps it's my interpretation of the results but I'm the one that made the list.  
 

It's not an interpretation

It's an INCORRECT statement of fact.

You can "interpret": "Wizards should have lots of powerful and flavourful control powers that put on interesting status effects" as: "Wizards should be flavourless and just deal damage" only by either being wrong, or being dishonest. 

So, please, stop making such claims^*. It doesn't fool anyone, and only makes the rest of us lose respect for you.
Which is bad, because you have some good ideas.

_{*in fact you should probably stop making any claims about what people other than you want, because every time you do, you seem to do the same thing.}