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1 year ago ::
Mar 26, 2012 - 8:18PM
#351
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The 9 alignments are a core, classic part of what D&D is to me, and if they're back as a default assumption in 5e, I can only say that they're taking at least one step in a positive direction and learning from past mistakes.
If the alignments are present with optional mechanical impact, then they will have learned from past mistakes.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
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so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 27, 2012 - 5:10PM
#352
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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Odin is exactly omniscient it may be from items but he knows everything:
-the two ravens Huginn and Muninn (Thought and Memory) fly around the Earth daily and report the happenings of the world to Odin in Valhalla at night
I think you're misunderstanding what omniscient and omnipotent mean.
If you find out about things hours after they happen, you're not omniscient. It's that simple. Omniscient is a very specific thing. You know absolutely everything. Not "can see everything", that's no-where near as powerful (because you can still only pay attention to some of it.)
If there is anything you can't do, instantly, with nought but a thought, you're not omnipotent. You may be very very potent. You may be undefeatable by mortal means. But you're not actually omnipotent.
Exactly.
Not only that, but it's arguable that Odin actually recieves all information. Things happen that he isn't aware of in the Eddas.
He didn't find out about Freja sleeping with the Brisings in exchange for a necklace from looking out on the world from Hlidskjalf, even though he can see anything in the universe from it. Nor did Huggin and Munnin bring him the information.
That doesn't make him any less a god, of course. It just means that the idea that omniscience and omnipotence aren't requirements of being a god.
Damn straight.
There are actually very few omniscient/omnipotent gods within real world religions.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 1:21AM
#353
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Damn straight.
There are actually very few omniscient/omnipotent gods within real world religions.
Right. And as a follower of some of those non omni-X gods, it's irritating, to say the least, when people repeat over and over again, essentially, that my gods aren't really gods.
It doesn't matter that we're discussing a game, because the statements aren't just about games. When the statement is "If it can be tricked, if it's not omniscient, it's not a god." with either an implied or explicit "full stop/period", it's offensive to those of us who follow real world gods that don't have those traits.
Basically, I think we should, in the future, stay away from making just general and "definitive" statments about the nature of godhood, as it ends up touching on real world beliefs a bit too directly.
That's why I'm so fond of the word "nigh".
Nigh Omnipotent, Nigh Omniscient, Nigh Invulnerable.
:D
I like that!
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 28, 2012 - 4:06PM
#354
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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Damn straight.
There are actually very few omniscient/omnipotent gods within real world religions.
Right. And as a follower of some of those non omni-X gods, it's irritating, to say the least, when people repeat over and over again, essentially, that my gods aren't really gods.
It doesn't matter that we're discussing a game, because the statements aren't just about games. When the statement is "If it can be tricked, if it's not omniscient, it's not a god." with either an implied or explicit "full stop/period", it's offensive to those of us who follow real world gods that don't have those traits.
I feel your pain.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 29, 2012 - 4:36PM
#355
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Damn straight.
There are actually very few omniscient/omnipotent gods within real world religions.
Right. And as a follower of some of those non omni-X gods, it's irritating, to say the least, when people repeat over and over again, essentially, that my gods aren't really gods.
It doesn't matter that we're discussing a game, because the statements aren't just about games. When the statement is "If it can be tricked, if it's not omniscient, it's not a god." with either an implied or explicit "full stop/period", it's offensive to those of us who follow real world gods that don't have those traits.
I feel your pain.
Yay! I'm not alone!
Is it odd that in my head (where everything is a movie, all the time) our avatars shared a drink at a tavern while the MLP:FIM theme played, all montage style?
Other brony posters were there, too, at the bar.
Stupid NyQuil....
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 11:26AM
#356
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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Damn straight.
There are actually very few omniscient/omnipotent gods within real world religions.
Right. And as a follower of some of those non omni-X gods, it's irritating, to say the least, when people repeat over and over again, essentially, that my gods aren't really gods.
It doesn't matter that we're discussing a game, because the statements aren't just about games. When the statement is "If it can be tricked, if it's not omniscient, it's not a god." with either an implied or explicit "full stop/period", it's offensive to those of us who follow real world gods that don't have those traits.
I feel your pain.
Yay! I'm not alone!
Is it odd that in my head (where everything is a movie, all the time) our avatars shared a drink at a tavern while the MLP:FIM theme played, all montage style?
Other brony posters were there, too, at the bar.
Stupid NyQuil....
Yes it is odd, but I like odd. 
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 11:43AM
#357
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2012
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I find it interesting that some people are looking at going back to something that many consider a fundamental element to the game is "regressive" or "backward". Just because something is new does not mean it is either better or that it even works. History is full of examples of how a new way of thinking actually cause more problems than it solved. Alignment has been part of every edition of DnD. It is one of the core and defining things in the game. Love it or hate it or don't care about, it still is part of what makes DnD what it is instead of just another fantasy RPG.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 1:26PM
#358
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I find it interesting that some people are looking at going back to something that many consider a fundamental element to the game is "regressive" or "backward". Just because something is new does not mean it is either better or that it even works. History is full of examples of how a new way of thinking actually cause more problems than it solved. Alignment has been part of every edition of DnD. It is one of the core and defining things in the game. Love it or hate it or don't care about, it still is part of what makes DnD what it is instead of just another fantasy RPG.
History is also made by a long list of new ideas that improved humanity, often by breaking the hold of some outdated tradition that was past it's time.
History is a terrible tool to try to use in a traditionalist argument. History is the story of new ideas defeating old ideas. Over and over and over again.
The whole "This must be kept because it is traditional, and any discussion of whether or not it is actually good is, at best, irrelevant" mindset is just terrible. It's faulty reasoning built on questionable premises.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
I could say anything in D&D is silly though, because it's a silly game and we are silly people.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 6:10PM
#359
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I find it interesting that some people are looking at going back to something that many consider a fundamental element to the game is "regressive" or "backward". Just because something is new does not mean it is either better or that it even works. History is full of examples of how a new way of thinking actually cause more problems than it solved. Alignment has been part of every edition of DnD. It is one of the core and defining things in the game. Love it or hate it or don't care about, it still is part of what makes DnD what it is instead of just another fantasy RPG.
History is also made by a long list of new ideas that improved humanity, often by breaking the hold of some outdated tradition that was past it's time.
History is a terrible tool to try to use in a traditionalist argument. History is the story of new ideas defeating old ideas. Over and over and over again.
The whole "This must be kept because it is traditional, and any discussion of whether or not it is actually good is, at best, irrelevant" mindset is just terrible. It's faulty reasoning built on questionable premises.
I have always seen History as lots of people making the same mistakes over and over, because obviously they are smarter then those other older guys who dont know anything cause now the world is better.
Like dot com bubbles and fiat money, it turns out that some new ideas do not actually improve humanity at all.
Pro DnD Member of the Axis of Awesome Fighters: Using socks to kill monsters since 2012 DnD Next: Now with more then 4 minutes of Roleplay per gaming hour Spoiler:
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"If you can't make an interesting human fighter, then you aren't ready to play anything else yet" Edymnion
"The idea of resting up between encounters to fill-up on hit points and spells struck my meta-gaming nine-year-old as a distinct possibility. "Are you mad?" says my seven-year-old "This place is full of monsters!" "jamesgrahamuk
All characters have a story. Spoiler:
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Sometimes that story is short and sometimes it is long. They can be tragic, comic or absurd. Some teach. Some are just to fill the empty spaces in our lives. Rarely it is a transcendent fugue only half remembered but wondered at. And frequently: "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -William Shakespeare
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 7:37PM
#360
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
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Like dot com bubbles and fiat money
And Esperanto.
Playtest or get off the playtest boards.
---
I want justice for the voice that can't be heard
Vindication for every suffering and hurt
Let retribution hold dominion over earth
--Nemesis, VNV Nation
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