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Mar 18, 2012 -- 2:19PM, TheMormegil wrote:

Mar 18, 2012 -- 1:58PM, Kalnaur wrote:

Mar 18, 2012 -- 4:10AM, TheMormegil wrote:

Mar 18, 2012 -- 2:17AM, Kalnaur wrote:

Short answer, the trap wouldn't trigger in my game, unless I as DM had houseruled that your Paladin was an arcane Eldritch Knight.

I see. I can't really understand that reasoning: if you reflavored the paladin to arcane then it is arcane, end of the question. The fact that you are able to reflavor to arcane without mechanical issues is one of the best features of 4E along with balance. Because really, there's virtually no change in mechanics by changing divine to arcane.

The only problem I have is that Arcane is a keyword.  Keywords are mechanical in nature.  For example, without houseruling a Paladin into an arcane class, the Paladin cannot take the Arcane Familiar feat, because it's not Arcane.  I know many people saw Power Sources as flavour, but since they had keywords from the moment they were printed, they're inexorably linked to the system.  Now, A houseruled Paladin that is arcane, fine.  But saying it's arcane doesn't make it so unless the mechanics match the flavour.

That's my personal stance on it.

Well, I wouldn't really think Arcane Familiar is worth enough to be strict about it. On stuff like Dual Implement Spellcaster, though, I totally see your point. That's a reason to reflavor divine feats to arcane and arcane feats to divine. If you reflavored the paladin class, some feats are not a problem.

Point is, feats are still strictly mechanical. The trap is not, it's part of the story. You can't change the flavor and then stick to the previous one. If you reflavor to arcane, then it's going to be arcane. I guess that's just my take on reflavoring though. 

I'd say the trap is mechanical if it deals damage, because HP are mechanics.   Also, that what you call reflavouring is by my account houseruling, since source keywords are also mechanical.

I know we have different routes to reach the same conclusion though.  If a player asked if they could houserule the Paladin into an arcane champion, I'd ask what their concept was, what they were looking at doing, why the paladin instead of a predesigned class, etc.  If the reasons are good, change it from Divine to Arcane, remove holy symbols as an implement, and replace with a similar, singular implement (not sure why, but I want to say 'orb'), and at that point yes, the trap would trigger.

Salla, I see you seem to go by Mormegil's way.  Do you change all the player's "prayers" to Spells, have them effected by holy symbols, do they have the arcane keyword, etc?  Or do you, "not worry about that"?  I'm curious because for me, that would be, again houserule, not reflavour.

Note, everyone, I'm not saying that houserules are bad.  Just that we should recognize that a power source confers mechanical workings, and thus has an impact on the game workings, where flavour has none and can be changed at will.  The moment a game mechanic comes into play, it's a houserule.

Mar 18, 2012 -- 3:12PM, Salla wrote:

In this instance, it was houseruling, because there were mechanics altered (the arcane power source, and a shift of implements).  I would have had no problems with a pure reflavoring standpoint, however, which is how I did it when I wanted to play a healing wizard in someone else's game.  As far as the mechanics cared, I was divine. As far as the world was concerned, I was arcane.

I can't abide that inconsistency.  Mechanics and flavour must match, or the flavour is worthless, because the mechanics decide arbitration, not the flavour.  Note again, this is my take.  And again, I hate that I have to say that, and that people won't simply know that I'm stating subjective opinion, not objective fact.

Mar 18, 2012 -- 8:25AM, ReaperTatt wrote:

Depends on setting. Eberron will be high magic. Dark sun will be low magic. The genre itself will more than likely be high fantasy simply die to the amount of fantastical and commonplace mythical creature that exist in the game world. IIRC birthright had a more low fantasy feel to it as it was modeled more on medieval life historically, but it's been a long time....

I´m not sure that Eberron is a high magic setting. Magic shaped Eberron, put an end to the war, destroyed Xendrik, but its also mundane, magic in eberron works like technology, nonetheless Wizards are respected in a society full of magic dabblers. (Also remember Eberron plays the best at low-mid lvls.)