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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 9:17AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2009
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I would like the next incarnation of D&D to be Miniatures optional. while I would likely use miniatures if it was playable without, I think that having option for mini-less play would be an improvement.
what say everyone else?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 9:21AM
#2
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I'm a big fan of tactical combat. Making it a module will reduce the integration of map and powers that 4e has.
But i may very well be in the minority.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 9:24AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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I've seen this a few times. A few popular arguments always pop up: For minis:
- Accurate depth gauging and range finding
- Looks really good when done well
- Easier to plot out areas of effect
- DM no longer has to keep everyone's relative positions in his head
Against Minis:
- Expense
- Low quality of "official" WotC minis
- Time required to paint and assemble higher quality minis
- WotC's horrible minis distribution system
- Makes a lot of players feel like its too much like an MMO
- Movement usually restricted to a square grid
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 9:41AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2006
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Haven't they already said that minis would be optional for 5e?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 9:52AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2007
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Against Minis:
This one is actually not true in that there are many creative ways around it.
No I'm not advocating stealing. You can use dice, cut out index cards, pictures from the internet, or even scan the pictures from the book and reduce them to appropriate size using image editing software. As for a mat I have a great 1 yard square mat that cost me less than 3 dollars. Your local fabric store or Walmart will have a checkerboard pattern.
D&D Next: The Revenge Edition. The chance for all those selfish conceited people who didn't like 4E to push people out of the game. Because it was so wrong for them to be pushed out for an edition it's nw the right thing for them to push others out.
Because you like something, it does not mean it is good.
Because you dislike something, it does not mean it is bad.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it everyone's opinion.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it truth.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it the general consensus.
Whatever side you want to take, at least remember these things.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 1:29PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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Haven't they already said that minis would be optional for 5e?
I dunno; I haven't heard anything because they're actually enforcing the NDAs. We have nothing concrete to go with, just wild mass guessing. Although its just as likely they haven't done anything and are watching the forums simmer so they can pick out the best ideas (or at least most popular ones).
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 1:46PM
#7
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- Unconventional Mafia Pro
- Dark Lord
Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2001
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I'm all the way for minis optional/minis module, and this is from someone who sees painting miniatures as a plus.
The biggest problem with "minis required" for me is the setup and prep work. I want to be able to play D&D without a table: roll your dice on a hardback, we're go for gaming! I'd like the option to pull out the grid and minis, but if everything expects that, I'm at a loss for the Pick Up Game (which is how I most often end up playing.
Readying an adventure for full minis usage takes at LEAST double the time of readying an adventure otherwise. I need to design all the rooms where combat might occur down to the last square and what's in each to determine open terrain versus difficult or impassible. For an average session, the mapping alone can be hours if that level of detail is involved.
and then there's keeping it straight on the table. I am blessed to have a dry-erase two-sided square/hex grid mat, but even then it takes several minutes of valuable gaming time to draw the room in question, place the starting positions of the monsters and characters, and making changes? uuugh. It's a lot of work that I don't want to do for every combat in every session.
As things stand, I have a habit of pulling the mat out only for the biggest, most important encounters: anything less uses dice/minis in rough relative position (to get an idea if you can move to flank, or if character X is in danger). If those aren't avaliable, I'm perfectly capable of doing without.
I wouldn't have it any other way. 3e is about as reliant on miniatures as I'm willing to stomach, and makes it hard on me even then. 4e was more reliant, and that was a bad strike against it. if 5e, at its most core (non-module) is as reliant... that'll be a strike against it too.
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice." THE COALITION WAR GAME-Phyrexian Praetor Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill) Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills) Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill) Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills) Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills) Round 6: (8-7-1) [current round] Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 1:54PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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I've used minis since 2E, and I simply don't understand the people who want to play without them.
4E is no more difficult minis-free than 2E or 3E. The problems you have playing 4E without minis are fundamental issues that occur when you play without minis. Sometimes it isn't worth the effort to use minis. That's fine. The issue 4E has is that there are no meaningless encounters which aren't worth the effort.
That's not a problem with the grid, or the powers, or any such thing; it's a problem with the combat/encounter design. No system that has ranges more precise than 'melee', 'ranged', and 'global' will ever get away from the problems presented by playing without minis. It's simply a matter of which problems you prefer (because playing with minis, as pointed out here, does definitely have its own set of problems; I think they're being overblown, but that's my opinion).
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 2:06PM
#9
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I have a love/hate relationship with minis. It really depends on the day and the game. Sometimes I really appreciate hyper-tactical combats in 4E---it feels awesome to plan out an assault with your party members and execute the plan perfectly. Likewise, running monsters in 4E on a grid is really entertaining when DMing, which I do 95% of the time.
That having been said, I really do enjoy lounging about now and then and playing miniature-less games. I've found 4E to be, like 3E, pretty hard to pull off well without a grid. It's doable, but I have a hard time doing it well because there is just so much of which to keep track.
I would love to see 5E being grid/miniature-optional more so than 4E is, i.e. having some way to run combats that are interesting and fun, and balanced and clever, without a grid. Still, I want to be able to play with a grid, too, if my players want that.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 14, 2012 - 2:41PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2006
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Haven't they already said that minis would be optional for 5e?
I dunno; I haven't heard anything because they're actually enforcing the NDAs. We have nothing concrete to go with, just wild mass guessing. Although its just as likely they haven't done anything and are watching the forums simmer so they can pick out the best ideas (or at least most popular ones).
Quotes like this
Just like a player makes his character, the Dungeon Master can make his ruleset,” says Mearls. “He might say ‘I’m going to run a military campaign, it’s going to be a lot of fighting’… so he’d use the combat chapter, drop in miniatures rules, and include the martial arts optional rules.
From here:
www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2012/01/...
And pics of the playtesting showing some tables using minis and others not using them makes it pretty clear they don't intend to make minis mandatory.
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