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1 year ago ::
Mar 17, 2012 - 8:00PM
#231
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It's a blend of the two really. You have to know your audience to be successful in getting that audience to buy your stuff. However, if all you do is give them the same old tropes and conventions they have come to expect, then you probably won't be successful in the long run. The trick is to give the audience enough of what they want and expect to make them feel comfortable while not giving them so much that they can predict the ending or get bored with it.
does that mean Nickelback is the exception that proves the rule?
I think they were proving the rule at one time, with songs like savin' me, and if everyone cared. Now it's all just songs about drinking and getting laid. Which is cool. But I don't need that many of those songs. That's actually my gripe about rap music today too. Too much "from the windows to the walls", and not enough "911 is a joke in my town."
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 17, 2012 - 10:04PM
#232
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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It's a blend of the two really. You have to know your audience to be successful in getting that audience to buy your stuff. However, if all you do is give them the same old tropes and conventions they have come to expect, then you probably won't be successful in the long run. The trick is to give the audience enough of what they want and expect to make them feel comfortable while not giving them so much that they can predict the ending or get bored with it.
does that mean Nickelback is the exception that proves the rule?
I think they were proving the rule at one time, with songs like savin' me, and if everyone cared. Now it's all just songs about drinking and getting laid. Which is cool. But I don't need that many of those songs. That's actually my gripe about rap music today too. Too much "from the windows to the walls", and not enough "911 is a joke in my town."
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Have any techno or metal music comparisons?
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 17, 2012 - 10:12PM
#233
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It's a blend of the two really. You have to know your audience to be successful in getting that audience to buy your stuff. However, if all you do is give them the same old tropes and conventions they have come to expect, then you probably won't be successful in the long run. The trick is to give the audience enough of what they want and expect to make them feel comfortable while not giving them so much that they can predict the ending or get bored with it.
does that mean Nickelback is the exception that proves the rule?
I think they were proving the rule at one time, with songs like savin' me, and if everyone cared. Now it's all just songs about drinking and getting laid. Which is cool. But I don't need that many of those songs. That's actually my gripe about rap music today too. Too much "from the windows to the walls", and not enough "911 is a joke in my town."
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Have any techno or metal music comparisons?
As far as know, techno doesn't have words. It all sounds like a funkless version of the intro to the shaft theme song to me. As for metal, it depends on how you define it. Some metal has words. Other kinds just repeat the same lyrics for each song:
Lyrics of every Death Metal song
Show
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
Chorus
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
Chorus
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 17, 2012 - 11:06PM
#234
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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As far as know, techno doesn't have words. It all sounds like a funkless version of the intro to the shaft theme song to me. As for metal, it depends on how you define it. Some metal has words. Other kinds just repeat the same lyrics for each song:
Lyrics of every Death Metal song
Show
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
Chorus
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
Chorus
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
-Gutteral Scream-
This, to me, means you have not listened to the right techno/electronica/vocal trance/etc music, nor the right death metal/black metal/folk metal/power metal/etc music.
Though I think it helps to illustrate a point: people see or hear about something, or witness the wrong side of something and form opinions based on that information only. Assumptions are bad things to have. And while there might be some strange or discordant music, a game that doesn't conform to your specific likes and dislikes, an anime that turns out to be more hentai than actual plot driven animation, or what have you, that does not specifically mean that the material is bad, nor that you should make blanket statements about things you don't enjoy.
Just as I can't find enjoyment in rap or country, for example, does not mean that I cannot see their value to others.
I leave you with the Lyrics to Amon Amarth's "Releasing Surtur's Fire", music from a "melodic" death metal band.
Show
He's riding 'cross a field, familiar but nothing is the same
This place he knew as hammerfest
When the old gods reigned
The army of demons rides
By his side with weapons drawn
Today is the day
When ragnar§èk will be spawned
There lies the mountain where the temple once stood
Where eons ago he arose to spill their christian blood
Stuck in the rock is a golden ring
That yet no one's dared to touch
The legend has it it's where the crusher once struck
He pulls the hammer from the mountains grip
The sign for demons to attack
He's been called upon to arise and he won't spare a single life
No thor spare a single soul, or let them get away alive
They strike down on the world with overwhelming force
All resistance is brutally crushed, crushed without remorse
Dark angels descend to join the bloodfight
The slaughter brings them on, see oden's valkyries ride
The battle of midg§ôrd is almost won
And the thousand years of tyranny will be forever gone
Soon a new world will be born rising from the sea
Where asagods again shall reign and humans will be free
He rides once more upon the black mountain of doom
Holding firm the crusher of giant bones
He lets the hammer strike, now everything will burn
As surtur's fire is released upon the world
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 18, 2012 - 9:40AM
#235
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2006
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What I hope to buy is D&D Next in a digital format at whatever price I set.
Cause artifical scarcity in this day in age is for chumps.
http://collectingrealities.blogspot.co.nz/
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1 year ago ::
Mar 18, 2012 - 4:15PM
#236
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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I'll buy the core books, whatever they end up being, if they are printed on paper. Preferably hardback.
I will buy lots of cheap digital books regardless.
I will buy the first few suppliments unless the core books are terrible. (4-5 of them)
I'll buy more than that if I enjoy it more than 3rd, my main group prefers it to 3rd, or my wife prefers it to 3rd.
All in all there is a good chance I will buy lots of books regardless. I bought 4e through PHB3 and a little after, before I was convinced I didn't like it, so they can probably milk me for some time.
Somehow the topic changes to music... uhh Windows to the Walls serves its purpose. Solid fun exciting song. All music doesn't have to be political/make a statement. Sometimes its great when it does (NOFX), but othertimes its terrible (Green Day) even when they generally say very similar things. Sometimes music that doesn't make a statement is great and sometimes it is not. Get Low // I Gotta Feeling (black eyed peas).
A message doesn't make music good. It can help but it doesn't always.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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1 year ago ::
Mar 19, 2012 - 9:57PM
#237
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2003
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I like world building as a player, that has traditionally meant things like building my own organizations, researching my own spells building my own magic Items. I want a system that allows this and gives me cool evocative ways to do this in play. I like collecting spells as a wizard and as a player I prefer to avoid Wealth by level as it forces strong optimization towards filling in the Christmas tree as efficiently as possible while penalizing you for keeping flavorful but essentially trivial items with a highish cash value.
I like complexity in my builds and having options in play. I like good strong fluff system fluff that helps define the boundary lines in the games define the boundary lines clearly what is a Arcane/Divine/Martial ability and then build the mechanics around those limitations.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 20, 2012 - 1:02PM
#238
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2009
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Short of dying, I'm sure I will own the core books. Even if the system is as bad as 4e for me. I just won't buy any more if it is bad.
I really think it is going to be good.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 20, 2012 - 1:16PM
#239
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2012
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What would prevent me from buying the books is if the rule set is either really huge, AKA: Paizo's Pathfinder core rule book. Or, if the book is too small to contain enough details. I hate having to go read through 3 books to build a fighter. I should be able to get away with a DMG and a PHB. If I choose to get more, then I can do that. But don't force me to buy 5 books just to play the game. If I have to do that, i'm not going to take the chance on it.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 20, 2012 - 2:14PM
#240
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2010
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1. More elements from 3e/3.5e.
I like 4E just fine but it doesn't FEEL like D&D to me as much.
2. Less, preferrably none, of the 'more is better' mindset seen in 4E
There's room for some stuff from 4E but overall there's just too much crap in it (4E). I feel like I'm working on a research project when I'm making a new character.
3. How about just one Player's Handbook (and DMG and MM for that matter) this time?
I understand WotC wants to make money but I'm much more likely to buy just one players handbook than 1/3 of three players handbooks. D&D has always had great expansion handbooks and that's where new races, classes and such belong; not split up over three books.
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