Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I think ANY mechanics are really going to influence sales of 5E. Most people are either going to buy the new shiny game with fantasy heroes fighting a dragon on the front cover, or they are going to prejudge the game based on their personal prejudices and whatever Internet vitriol/marketing they choose to align themselves with.
If they haven't even heard of Tolkien they really don't have the right to dispute anything.
That's not what I said. The consensus among industry insiders is that RPGs are a separate genre with their own tropes and standards. They don't simulate movies or novels because it is impossible to do so well. So rather than fail at simulation of everything they don't try to simulate anything. That means that referring to movies or novels is a falacious comparison at the very root of the argument.
Explain an origin for halflings that doesn't involve inspiration from The Hobbit or a midget fetish.
Granted, RPGs are they're own genre, but to deny the obvious influence of movies and books is just silly. Hell, one of the best ways of explaining RPGs to outsiders is "It's like a novel or movie, except you decide what happens."
Zammm = Batman. Bronies unite. "I'd call you a genius, but I'm in the room." It's my sig in a boxShow
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul:
Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay."
I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board.
Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other BarryShow
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic , giving you time to set up your silly combo . Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster...
Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil.
And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
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...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right?
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players.
And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it.
He/It got me with Light of Sanction , which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad , things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed .
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I think ANY mechanics are really going to influence sales of 5E. Most people are either going to buy the new shiny game with fantasy heroes fighting a dragon on the front cover, or they are going to prejudge the game based on their personal prejudices and whatever Internet vitriol/marketing they choose to align themselves with.
Isn't this the oldest RPG tradition?
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I think ANY mechanics are really going to influence sales of 5E. Most people are either going to buy the new shiny game with fantasy heroes fighting a dragon on the front cover, or they are going to prejudge the game based on their personal prejudices and whatever Internet vitriol/marketing they choose to align themselves with.
That's really bad for WotC if that happens. They're trying to get the 1e/2e and 3e/3.5e/Pathfinder players to buy the new edition. And clearly, buying the new shiny thing at best didn't stick for those players or they'd be playing 4e.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I think ANY mechanics are really going to influence sales of 5E. Most people are either going to buy the new shiny game with fantasy heroes fighting a dragon on the front cover, or they are going to prejudge the game based on their personal prejudices and whatever Internet vitriol/marketing they choose to align themselves with.
That's really bad for WotC if that happens. They're trying to get the 1e/2e and 3e/3.5e/Pathfinder players to buy the new edition. And clearly, buying the new shiny thing at best didn't stick for those players or they'd be playing 4e.
No.
They're trying to get the 1e/2e, 3e/PF, AND the 4e players to buy it. 5e/Next is not merely some grab at the past. It is intended (rightly) to be an embrace of all styles.
Anyway, I think some interesting points have been raised on both sides by nearly all parties.
I mentioned earlier that I dislike SoD-like effects, particularly the ones predicated on a single roll. I didn't go into specific reasons (as I figured many had been already mentioned, or soon would be, by other parties). But I did say that the very reasons I disliked them were probably the main reasons others DID like them.
More or less, my predictions have held true.
Beyond concerns for...character continuity...and a desire to avoid "swingy-ness" -- which some may actually desire for legitimate reasons; the simplest being "Just because" -- my issue with SoD comes down to one major thing:
They necessitate an arms race of mechanics and counter-mechanics.
Save or Die effects, if there was no way to plan and account for them, would feel punishingly unfair. If there was no way to plan to defend yourself against the medusa's stare, then the DM's use of a medusa would be simply an exercise in testing chance and tempting fate.
So when the game presents SoD-like effects, it needs to provide some sort of countermeasure, either preventative or curative. The old adage is true that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so it is far preferable for the game to allow the player to use a mirrored surface (like a shield) to deal with the medusa, than with the alternative of Stone to Flesh scrolls/potions/whatnot. This empowers player actions and decisions and rewards "smart play" (a phrase I dislike, btw).
The player, using wits and resources, achieves success and avoids failure in the first example. In the second, the player overcomes failure to try again. At its worst, the second example becomes an excercise in outlasting probability. Trial after trial after trial, until the numbers line up and success is achieved through the brute force of probability. Eventually, everyone rolls 3 nat20's in a row.
So obviously, SoD mechanics and counter-mechanics can be implemented in story- and game-supportive ways.
But I posit that, all other things being equal, the game is better served by less, more broadly applicable rules at the core level.
Rather than have a whole system of specific effects that are designed to be very dangerous in that they bypass the HP system (which is fundamentally a measure of how much danger a character can withstand), along with a whole slew of counter-measures to these intentionally dangerous effects, the game can simply utilize existing systems more broadly, and having less specific effects.
As an example, super-dangerous effects can simply cause extreme amounts of HP damage, which is already mitigated by A) having high HP to begin with, B) curative resources that are already in the game to deal with traditional HP loss, and C) the existing "coming back from the dead/dying/0 HP" mechanics that are also already in the game to deal with traditional HP loss.
So, for those that don't like attacks that can potentially kill a PC in one hit, they can simply not use them. Those that wish to use them can do so with no rules modifications. And those that want the very specific rules complexity, and the dynamic of, specific effect and countereffect can purchase that module.
At least that's how I see it. I find the bloat of specific effects and counter-measures to be messy, if not outright bad, design (and no edition, even my preferred 4th, is immune to this criticism).
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I think ANY mechanics are really going to influence sales of 5E. Most people are either going to buy the new shiny game with fantasy heroes fighting a dragon on the front cover, or they are going to prejudge the game based on their personal prejudices and whatever Internet vitriol/marketing they choose to align themselves with.
I think many will buy the first set of 2-3 books in any case, but then decide if they want more based on the actual play experience. An edition of d&d is a failure if it can not sell well past the first PHB, DMG and MM.
Beyond concerns for...character continuity...and a desire to avoid "swingy-ness" -- which some may actually desire for legitimate reasons; the simplest being "Just because" -- my issue with SoD comes down to one major thing:
They necessitate an arms race of mechanics and counter-mechanics.
I will grant you this, that so long as the presumption of play is that any given player character ought, all things being equal, survive a whole campaign and have a far better than average likelihood of accomplishing his goals, then you are probably right. All or Nothing effects with a single roll tend to upset this kind of expectation, and if they are used with that expectation, the result is a proliferation of counter-measures.
So, the question is whether AoN will be able to be a core feature, but not a necessary one, in such a way as to allow play at either setting without needlessly complicating the rules. I would imagine the answer to be yes, but all are not so optimistic here!
My guess is that it is easier to release a module that adds rules than to release a module explaining how to ignore rules already written.
As such, I assume core rules will skip the idea of Save or Die entirely, sacrificing it on the altar of absolute simplicity.
Basically, I think that core will have "Death Effects" without saves. Medusas just frakking petrify you if you look at them. No save. Don't look at them. The finer details of how to avoid or overcome such effects will be up to the DM/group. Future modules will have alternate or expository rules detailing specific sub-systems that give means to overcome challenges like this. One module may have "Save Against Blank" mechanics and other countermeasures. Another may add a tiered save system (save vs slow, then save vs stun, then save vs petrify).
Basically, the modules will represent a codified set of "houserules" designed, playtested, and endorsed by WotC themselves.
Essentials zigged, when I wanted to continue zagging.
you loads
