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1 year ago ::
Mar 03, 2012 - 12:51AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Arcane magic is just pure science. D&D is a fantasy game, so it's laws of nature are not like the real-world laws of nature and THAT is the difference.
Immortals or great races of old had more time to research then the mortal races, so their science is more advanced.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 03, 2012 - 2:41AM
#22
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I liked the explanation in pre 4th edition Forgotten Realms. You basically had the Weave and anyone using magic was basically using the Weave. Wizards (and not arcane spellcasters) would tap into the Weave using advanced magical formulas, sorcerers would use their untuition, clerics would ask for their god's help and so on.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 03, 2012 - 4:29AM
#23
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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I always pictured Arcane as flowing from raw magic, and thus having most of it coming from the Feywild. However, since one can make pacts with devils, vestiges, far realm beings, and archfey, I suppose that it comes from any potentially powerful source of magic. It's magic that is not gifted by the land (Primal), nor channeled through from the powers of the astral sea (Divine), nor is it Harnessed like Elemental or Shadow, and it isn't magic from within, per se (though the sorcerer definitly has it in the blood, it interacts with the world outside them).
I suppose arcane is magic that, in one way or another, you wrest from other places by force. Since the wildest magic is the feywild, I'd still say that's where most of it comes from.
Which explains why it defiles the land and destroys the feywild within the story of Athas of Dark Sun.
Basicaly, for you... everything is magic, so you can have primal magic, divine magic, elemental magic, shadow magic, etc. But i have a very opposite view, which is covered deeper in the topic i created to try to explain the use of language in D&D, only arcane provides magic and spells. Where primal provides spirit favor and evocations, divine provides faith and prayers and so on. For me, if the source is different... the power is different, even they might accomplish the same thing: "change the state of things", i'm focusing on how and why the change occurs.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 03, 2012 - 7:00AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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I always pictured Arcane as flowing from raw magic, and thus having most of it coming from the Feywild. However, since one can make pacts with devils, vestiges, far realm beings, and archfey, I suppose that it comes from any potentially powerful source of magic. It's magic that is not gifted by the land (Primal), nor channeled through from the powers of the astral sea (Divine), nor is it Harnessed like Elemental or Shadow, and it isn't magic from within, per se (though the sorcerer definitly has it in the blood, it interacts with the world outside them).
I suppose arcane is magic that, in one way or another, you wrest from other places by force. Since the wildest magic is the feywild, I'd still say that's where most of it comes from.
Which explains why it defiles the land and destroys the feywild within the story of Athas of Dark Sun.
Basicaly, for you... everything is magic, so you can have primal magic, divine magic, elemental magic, shadow magic, etc. But i have a very opposite view, which is covered deeper in the topic i created to try to explain the use of language in D&D, only arcane provides magic and spells. Where primal provides spirit favor and evocations, divine provides faith and prayers and so on. For me, if the source is different... the power is different, even they might accomplish the same thing: "change the state of things", i'm focusing on how and why the change occurs.
I was using magic there for it's generic term. I agree that the evocations, prayers, hexes and such are more interesting in their individually named types. Though unless players ask, I'm not interested in thinking up a reason why they are what they are called.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 4:03PM
#25
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Date Joined:
May 25, 2009
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Point taken, Kalnaur. It's just i don't like using magic as a generic. I mean, for me magic is just the expression of arcane power; therefore it can't not be manifested by divine power. Nor can a faith manifest arcane power. As i go, power is the generic term and i promote its use in my games. Language is important part of roleplaying games as far as i know, and it's a powerful tool for storytelling. Of course, some groups might ignore it and just use common language for everything... it's fine, as long as they have fun. =) But back on topic, and based on my previous reasoning, arcane power can be anything you wish... whether players ask for it or not, you might have the answer in advance or pick up one from under your sleeve when question arises. 
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 7:01PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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>> Arcane power (standard warlock fluff being the exception) is drawn from the
>> Feywild.
>
> Where is that stated in 4th Ed?
It isn't. The Feywild *is* Arcane-infused (being the "too bright" bits of creatia that the primordials discarded), but it doesn't come from there.
> I thought 4th Ed was trying to get away from needless symmetry (so I assume the
> Psionic power source comes from the Far Ream?).
Official fluff describes it as being the cosmos "fighting fire with fire" when the Far Realm makes an incursion, so no, it doesn't come from there.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 04, 2012 - 10:07PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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Lots of good points on this thread.
I like the idea of Arcane as Science, as it makes a good contrast from Divine as religion. Tying Arcane Magic to the Elemental Chaos furthers that tension, as it comes from the region at war with the heavens. Given that the Feywild comes from the brightest throw-offs of the Primordial's creation, it makes sense why the Feywild is rife in Primordial power. All-in-all, it allows a DM to create a medevial worldview where both Alchemists, Heretics, and Witches can be said to draw from the same source (which the church judges evil).
I wish the Warlock was not locked into the Arcane power source, and that its power source depended on its pact.
Star: Psionic
Infernal: Divine
Sorcerer-King: Arcane
Vestige/Elemental: Arcane (Yes, I consider the Vestige Warlock to be akin to the Elemental Hexblade, as both use bound beings, which are mostly elementals)
Dark/Gloom: Shadow
Fey: Primal (Yes, I know there's a difference, but I like the symmetry)
'I have had players complain about having extra rares in a pack. I’ve had players complain about getting free things. I have had players complain because they liked something “too much”.' - Mark Rosewater's Twitter, May 7th, 2013
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1 year ago ::
Mar 05, 2012 - 8:39AM
#28
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Reviewng and rethinking my earlier thoughts on the matter, I still like to think of Arcane magic as being a kind of Source Code to the world, but i'm sort of riffing off an old xkcd comic here.
Wizards are the physicists of the world, working at high levels of arcane theory to produce strange and dangerous results. Artificers are the engineers, more concerned with practical applications of trusty and reproducable magic. Swordmages are more of a battle engineer, whose magical understanding is focused pretty specifically on combat. Bards are sort of a parallel development to wizards; just like there is a relationship between the study of physics in math, there is also a relationship between the study of music and math. Bards are tapping into a more primal and mysterious connection with the arcane, manipulating it in the same way that the creators did when they sung the songs that created the world. Art is less explicable than science, but doesn't require less effort or technical prowess. Sorcerers are intuitively manipulating the arcane energies and principles of the universe--which drives Wizards insane, because who are these crazy people thinking that they can just 'wing it' with the ineffable power of the universe?
Warlocks are cheaters, who let someone else do the work of understanding arcane theory for them, and then borrow the power.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 05, 2012 - 11:05AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2007
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I wish the Warlock was not locked into the Arcane power source, and that its power source depended on its pact.
Star: Psionic
Infernal: Divine
Sorcerer-King: Arcane
Vestige/Elemental: Arcane (Yes, I consider the Vestige Warlock to be akin to the Elemental Hexblade, as both use bound beings, which are mostly elementals)
Dark/Gloom: Shadow
Fey: Primal (Yes, I know there's a difference, but I like the symmetry)
I like this idea. And I like the Fey-Primal link since so much of fay magic is basically nature magic.
As for vestige binders, I picture them as the scavengers of the warlock world... they channel scraps from all the power sources.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 05, 2012 - 10:24PM
#30
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Who put the Wild in Feywild? Why, the Primal Spirits, of course!
-DS
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