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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:17PM
#71
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2008
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I hadn't seen this thread until after I posted one based on the Player Character's Power vs NPC/Monster's Power. I am curious has anyone had a PvP match whether it was an areana for a prize or because maybe the Assassian sold out the Party to some Evil Power group those are just story elements and this has nothing to do with Jarlaxle, Raistlin, or Entreri type characters who do allow party members to die or at least use to, that is a different subject.
My question is how does the Combat System work when done in this fashon? Perhaps I will have some other curious players enter the Areana of Death just to see how Player Characters power level works out with Monster Level and NPC. What truly happens does any player really die, if so how long does that normally take what were the different factors?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:26PM
#72
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2008
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I hadn't seen this thread until after I posted one based on the Player Character's Power vs NPC/Monster's Power. I am curious has anyone had a PvP match whether it was an areana for a prize or because maybe the Assassian sold out the Party to some Evil Power group those are just story elements and this has nothing to do with Jarlaxle, Raistlin, or Entreri type characters who do allow party members to die or at least use to, that is a different subject.
My question is how does the Combat System work when done in this fashon? Perhaps I will have some other curious players enter the Areana of Death just to see how Player Characters power level works out with Monster Level and NPC. What truly happens does any player really die, if so how long does that normally take what were the different factors?
When we were playing 3.5, my group used to do this in downtime for **** and giggles when people were bored. We, of course, had the benefit that we were(are) an online group. Combat tended to last a couple of rounds, based on what characters were involved. We also had fairly firm rules about pre-buffing, so that casters didn't step in with contingency and whatnot.
The result? Casters still tended towards auto-wins, while melee characters tended to slug it out. Once the first hit landed though, that tended to be game-over. We had to introduce handicaps to make fights interesting and actually keep our attention, and even then, they quickly died out as a thing we'd do in favour of actual play. I've never introduced PC vs PC story elements, but have done NPCs-as-PCs in fights, building them as monsters in 4e: Result? PC powers are not balanced against other PCs. They are far more crippling and damaging than MM3/MV math-fixed creatures.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:27PM
#73
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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As I stated before, there are some old school modules that contain PvP situations. Some spells encouraged it as well.
I would be fine with a modular support for PvP, but it should not be considered a core tenant of the system, and thus should not be a core part of the game.
I think that most concepts will be modular within the context of 5th edition. I'm not sure how you would make characters more balanced for PvP situations, but I guess it could be done if you play fast and lose with roles or drop them from your game. Maybe the solution is to make mechancial roles a modular concept.
Honestly, the only places where I have seen "somewhat balanced" PvP is: Vs Card games (though this balance can swing much to one side or the other depending on the level of playtesting going into the system, and how fair it is that each player gets to build his or her deck), Fighting games and Games specifically made for PvP, such as Guild Wars. And even those have their flaws. I've never really gotten the idea of PvP, anyway. Though I will attest to some shooters and Fighting games being fun, for about an hour or so. But then it gets tedious.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
Show
You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:30PM
#74
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My question is how does the Combat System work when done in this fashon?
Exactly the same. Roll for initiative. Roll versus defense. Roll for damage. Why would it be different?
just to see how Player Characters power level works out with Monster Level and NPC.
On an even level footing, the players are more powerful. That's because (drumroll...) the players are supposed to win!
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:30PM
#75
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Date Joined:
Oct 22, 2007
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I'm not convinced strikers win in PvP. The Leader usually has more heals and escape buttons so recovers quickly unless the striker one shots him which is tricky.
Most defenders can weather a striker nova and controllers can usually disable a striker with the relevant controller powers.
But maybe I'm inexperienced in this and characters don't have as many escape buttons when attacked with large amounts of force as I think they do.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:33PM
#76
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Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2009
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Honestly, the only places where I have seen "somewhat balanced" PvP is: Vs Card games (though this balance can swing much to one side or the other depending on the level of playtesting going into the system, and how fair it is that each player gets to build his or her deck), Fighting games and Games specifically made for PvP, such as Guild Wars. And even those have their flaws. I've never really gotten the idea of PvP, anyway. Though I will attest to some shooters and Fighting games being fun, for about an hour or so. But then it gets tedious.
If you don't ever enjoy any competitive content, in any game or genre, then perhaps you should simply say that it should be optional instead of trying to lobotomize it from the game.
It is perfectly possible for reasonable adults to have their characters fight each other because that's what the character would do. You've said before that you hate that excuse. Too bad. You need to separate the speech from the speaker. Many people claim that it's what their character would do when it is not, in fact, what their character would do. But if we're playing Star Wars, I'm a Jedi, and another PC uses a dark side force power, we're going to have words. If they're completely unrepentant, and continue to use the dark side without apology, and are slowly being corrupted by it, guess what? We're going to have PVP because a Jedi is not going to let that pass. It's what the character would do.
You can blame the non-Jedi for inciting the Jedi, I suppose, but at that point you're just saying that no one is ever allowed to play any character who ever disagrees with another PC. That's not a position that I can ever support; the rules of the game do not need to tell me how to RP my interactions with other PCs.
All that said I don't have a problem with the way 4E handles PVP. It's not balanced. It doesn't need to be. There's nothing explicitly stopping me from fighting another PC, it simply might not be a good idea (for a wide variety of reasons).
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 4:56PM
#77
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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The result? Casters still tended towards auto-wins, while melee characters tended to slug it out. Once the first hit landed though, that tended to be game-over.
I recal playing an arena in AD&D. It was actually the priests who were the most powerful. Everyone had fly, invisibility, and amulets of non detection on. We all had a bunch of magic resistance too.  The paladin caused some trouble with his holy avenger (anti-magic), but he was killed with a wall of stone and a well placed stone to mud spell (which caused the wall to fall on him). It ended up being a contest of magic, but that's just how D&D was. Even the fighters used magic (arrows of human slaying
I've never introduced PC vs PC story elements, but have done NPCs-as-PCs in fights, building them as monsters in 4e: Result? PC powers are not balanced against other PCs. They are far more crippling and damaging than MM3/MV math-fixed creatures.
That's why I like the concept of class templates. All my important NPC's have class templates with loads of PC powers. There is nothing like giving the PC's a taste of their own medicine.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 5:07PM
#78
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2009
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I hadn't seen this thread until after I posted one based on the Player Character's Power vs NPC/Monster's Power. I am curious has anyone had a PvP match whether it was an areana for a prize or because maybe the Assassian sold out the Party to some Evil Power group those are just story elements and this has nothing to do with Jarlaxle, Raistlin, or Entreri type characters who do allow party members to die or at least use to, that is a different subject.
My question is how does the Combat System work when done in this fashon? Perhaps I will have some other curious players enter the Areana of Death just to see how Player Characters power level works out with Monster Level and NPC. What truly happens does any player really die, if so how long does that normally take what were the different factors?
I'm just gonna leave this link here.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool. | Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner | |
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 6:44PM
#79
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2008
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Thanks Pashalik Mons just what I was curious about!
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 6:53PM
#80
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Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2012
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PvP has happened in every edition I've ever played.
It's not a crime against humanity or indicitive of any psychological impairment of the player.
Getting your panties in a twist over some PvP is as bad as being the guy who insists on making it happen every game.
With the amount of milksopping about balanced systems on these boards you think some of you would be a little more balanced in your views.
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