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1 year ago ::
Feb 26, 2012 - 10:50PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2012
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WotC should publicly define the life span of the D&D Next platform right from the start. You may ask what does that accomplish. You may consider other aspects of the game more important. Please allow me to think outside the box and humbly take you with me. Even if D&D Next is everything you want it to be how soon after that will WotC announce they’re making D&D 6th edition? That answer affects gamers as well as those that make their living creating D&D related books, modules, movies, games, and mobile apps. WotC should have a design philosophy and make a press release stating something like, “D&D Next sets the standard of RPG for the next ten years.” When someone asks for clarification, its along the lines of, “Between 2000 and 2008 we released three versions of D&D, which were versions 3, 3.5, and 4. When D&D Next comes out, it’ll be at least ten years before the next version”. By saying and backing up that design philosophy, WotC tells everyone they can dive in and enjoy what they’ve created. Gamers and DMs can invest time and money to collect and learn about all the D&D Next materials they want, writers and programmers and other third parties can negotiate licensing deals using the D&D Next property, and all of them know their efforts will be rewarded. D&D Next was built to last at least a decade. I prefer to use the term D&D Next platform rather than just D&D Next because I’m hoping that’s what WotC actually develops: a platform. Apple iTunes and Facebook are two platforms. D&D Next should be another. WotC should create a solid foundation on which all players of D&D and third parties can build on, whether they’re online or off line. I’m hoping WotC realizes they can’t do that by themselves.
Perhaps recent events have proved to them one thing about D&D gamers they may have forgotten: once someone buys their books and materials they don’t need to buy anything more from them again - ever. That’s why many gamers are happy to keep playing whatever version of D&D they have. They’ve made it personal. They got the impression that WotC was laughing at them not moving forward to a new edition (2, 3, 3.5, 4) and thus left them behind. Who’s laughing now? Those “left behind” gamers don’t need to buy any new editions. They already have everything they need to play. So just about the only way D&D Next will appeal to many of them is if it somehow allows them to continue what they’re already doing but allow them to do it better. That doesn’t necessarily mean faster or easier. Just better. First, WotC has to win the hearts and minds of players and third parties. Profits come after that. I think past events shows they’ve tried it the other way round. That didn’t pan out too well. How do you feel about WotC letting us know how long D&D Next will last? How do you feel about buying or learning a new edition every three, four, or five years? If they promised D&D Next would last at least ten years, is it likely over that time you just might stop playing your favorite edition long enough just to try it out?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 26, 2012 - 10:58PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2008
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Honestly, I don't trust them to keep to any preset time schedule they might set.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition.Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotes
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You have to do the work first, and show you can do the work, before someone is going to pay you for it.
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 26, 2012 - 11:30PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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This sounds like a terrible idea. Defining this sort of thing right from the start will only straightjacket the rest of the entire edition. What if the edition fares very well? Then it gets ended prematurely? What if the edition does poorly? Then they force themselves to stick with something that everybody knows isn't working? Sorry, but all I see is a whole bunch of detriments and no benefits.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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1 year ago ::
Feb 26, 2012 - 11:46PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2010
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I don't care if they'd announce it or not, as long as they get it back to 8-12 years at a minimum like it should be.
DISCLAIMER - Everything said by anyone is absolute subjective opinion. There are no objective claims being made by me, or anyone else, unless they overtly state 'The following is an objective claim'. At this point if you choose to be offended by anything I (or anyone else) say the problem is ENTIRELY your own.
WotC won't let us give them money because they won't produce a game we want to play.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 8:06AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2012
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Honestly, I don't trust them to keep to any preset time schedule they might set.
I hear you loud and clear, Kalnaur. The most important thing WotC has to do is regain your trust, along with those of long term gamers and third parties.
It’s likely that many third parties (such as writers and programmers) don’t trust WotC keeping to any time schedule for D&D editions either. Why spend time and money investing in publishing game updates or developing video games related to D&D if WotC will sweep the rug from under them just as their project was nearing completion? That’s part of the reason why said writers and programmers got feed up with WotC and made their own versions. Thus was born Paizo’s Pathfinder and BioWare’s DragonAge. Both are successful in their own right. Both have gained the loyalty and trust of their players. Both used to work with WotC. Kalnaur, what would WotC have to do to regain your trust? You’ve implied words won’t be enough. You’ve got my attention. I’m listening.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 8:08AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2012
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I don't care if they'd announce it or not, as long as they get it back to 8-12 years at a minimum like it should be.
Well said, Phoenix182.
Announced or not, the stability and longevity of the new edition is what matters most. Between 8 to 12 years is fine with me too.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 8:25AM
#7
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So, you want WotC to foretell the future. Right.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 8:36AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2012
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This sounds like a terrible idea. Defining this sort of thing right from the start will only straightjacket the rest of the entire edition. What if the edition fares very well? Then it gets ended prematurely? What if the edition does poorly? Then they force themselves to stick with something that everybody knows isn't working? Sorry, but all I see is a whole bunch of detriments and no benefits.
Crimson_Concerto, please allow me to address your concerns and resolve the detriments you’ve brought up.
Behind closed doors, talking in private amongst themselves, there’s only two ways WotC can release D&D Next. They have to pick one of two choices: 1) Don’t set a date to start working on D&D 6th edition. Wait to see how well D&D Next is selling and what the industry as a whole is doing with it. 2) Set a date to start working on D&D 6th edition, regardless of how well D&D Next is selling and what the industry as a whole is doing with it. From my viewpoint WotC selected choice #1 every single time since releasing D&D 3.0 back in 2000. Within two years of that they must have started working on D&D 3.5 because that edition was released in 2003. Within two years of that, which would be 2005, they must have started working on D&D 4th edition because that was released in 2008. Does anyone else see a pattern? Since D&D 3.0, WotC seems to release a new edition, wait more or less two years to see how it fares commercially, it has some success but fails to reach whatever well defined goals and expectations they had for it, so they start over again and within two years of that release another edition. WotC has released three editions of D&D in the past eight years. Three! As a gamer, writer, or programmer, hoping to build a future on any of those three editions, how is that stable? Choice #1 seems to result in this: If we don’t sell enough of this new edition we’ll start over again in three years. But please keep buying the current edition anyways. Thanks for playing. What I suggest is that for the first time in ages WotC selects choice #2. Choice #2 may result in this: We’re gonna sell enough of this new edition because we’re not going anywhere. This edition will be with you after you leave high school, finish college, change jobs, get married, watch your kids learn to ride their bikes, and anything else you plan to do for the next 8 to 12 years. In short, we made this edition as if there wasn’t going to be another one.
I firmly believe WotC needs to forge D&D Next as the standard of RPG going forward. They have to set a solid foundation upon which all D&D gamers and third parties, of all previous editions, can stand on and build the future. They have to make a bold stand and that includes investing their time and money in the new edition, regardless of how slow or unsure it starts off upon release.
That's an investment that will pay off. If WotC isn't willing to chance that, why should we? Sure, they can always start making another edition. Sure, many of us can always stop buying new editions. That's where we are today.
Let's try something different. I suggest WotC builds D&D Next as if they wouldn't get a chance to make a 6th.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 8:47AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2007
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I agree with Nikari, WOTC needs to be able to stick with this new edition for a good 8-10 years minimum. Maybe, since it is based on the concept of moduals this is possible. If you like just the basic stuff that comes out early, you can stick with it, and still be playing DnD even if you ignore the later "moduals" that are released over the next ten years. Likely, every one will find some stuff from the other moduals that they will add into their game. But the point is, I guess, if a "6th edition" is simply an expanded rules modual then its a benifit of people getting new material and rules, without having to junk the core system that their 5 year campaign has been runing on. If this ends up being their buisness model it could work well, assuming that the foundational mechanics are solid. The reason WOTC needs to not dump this next system in a mere 5 years is because alot of people already have had their pockets burned from the drastrac transformations from old school, to 3.x, to 4th. After 4th, I almost made up my mind not to invest in any DnD products untill another company can make them. However, DnD next has my interest, so I will give it another try, but I, and I think others, are losing patience with the whole spend 500-1000 bucks game materials only to have it turn obsolete before even using half of the material. With regards to my decision to invest heavily in DnD next vs some other system, it would go along way if WOTC could tell me that the new system is going to be around for a while (and on a side note, that is why playtesting is so important, so there aren't any suprises and large segments of the community jumping ship because what is produced is so far from what they expected).
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1 year ago ::
Feb 27, 2012 - 9:08AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2007
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I get the sentiment behind this request, but saying how long the next iteration of D&D will last is just not possible. Heck, I couldn't even give you dates for when the playtest will start, how long it will last, and when D&D Next will have a real name and hit shelves. I would love for us to be able to say that this next iteration of D&D will last forever, but of course I can't say that. I (and others here) can't predict the future.
Personal choice: I would love to never see another edition of D&D ever again. If we could make a D&D that people want to play and buy and we could find ways to keep it supported and going until the end of time or gaming, that would be my preference.
Trevor Kidd Community Manager
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