Change is a generally positive (and necessary) thing, but often an individually negative thing.
I get that it's not all good.
However, I'm tired of the people calling for a full retcon to get rid of what is, to me, the best 4 years of Realmslore in a very long time.
there are many of us who have greatly enjoyed the last four years.
I don't want Erik's novels and short stories to be invalidated, or Paul's new Cale/Cale's sun stuff, or Rich Bakers books that I haven't gotten around to reading, but keep hearing awesome stuff about. I don't want all those truly fantastic DDI articles to become meaningless.
But there are people who do. They can't be happy with a Realms that supports the time they love, and moves forward in a way more in line with the feel of that time. They can't be happy with a strongly de-emphasized spellplague, or everyone getting some form of what they want. They have placed what they like and dislike so high that they have decided that anything less than total adherence in the form of making other people lose all of what they want.
I don't respect people who refuse to compromise. Being uncompromising isn't a virtue. It's a character flaw.
As far as I'm concerned, those who won't compromise shouldn't get to be part of the discussion. Ever. In any venue.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
that boat goes both ways though. the FR haters got their way in the first place when the 4e realms came in to being. those who loved it as it was, not so much. what comes around goes around whats good for the goose is good for the gander revenge as they say is a dish best served cold HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... on that note its also best avoided at all costs.
WOTC is not to likely to retcon the plague, they've already said as much. they also created the problem with 100 year jump on top of the plague and now they must attempt to fix it or drop it with the absence of my wallet.
all that said as I said earlier, drop the spell plague to a footnote, it happened get over it and move on. the 5e frcg( if there is going to be one) should have its timeline returned list the spell plague's start and end dates. the changes of the plague can be refferensed and not focused on in the new setting book.
I like ERik's work too, and not to interested in seeing it scrapped either, and from of the 4e novels I did read, not many of them focused on the spell plague so even if the plague was downplagued into a footnote, none of them would really be affected by it and nor would any of the others I've read.
retconning it away well......there is away in retconning it away without effecting any of their books. with the death of mystra, those who could channel spellfire were long forgotten and these days those who can tap into the remains of the spellfire are considered to have the spell plague with some positive and negative effects.
it would work... either way would not dispose of any of the novel's lore or affect them majorly in any way.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
RAS needs to kill Drizzt, and then never write in FR again.
I have to say, I'm surprised I'd disagree over something like this. Then again, I care not what happens to the Realms, so perhaps that's why I like the cotton candy writing that is Drizzt novels.
Out of curiousity, are you against all RAS's writing, or just his Forgotten Realms work?
Oh, and just so you know, he's basically said he'll never kill him unless he gets bored of him, and as of yet he's not bored of Drizzt. Even if other people are.
My only complaint about Chewbacca's death in the Star Wars expanded universe* is that the book wasn't all that well written. It was like Data's death in that [censored] terrible Star Trak movie.
If you're going to have an important, beloved character die, make sure you've got a solid story, with a great writer.
I haven't read any of his non shared world stuff, though. And the Cleric Quintet was good. I'm just not sure he's written anything worth more than emergency toilet paper since then.
I also recently developed a new level of grudge against him because I realized how important he's been to the whole "Dwarves are scottish, and their women bearded" thing that I despise with such vociferous vehemence I'm surprised it doesn't give me ulcers.
*RAS wrote that book
I think Chewie's death, because it was mandated of RAS to write it, destroyed his enjoyment and investment in writing that book. He hates to even talk about that book because it was of that. I think his best works, book-wise, are his non-licensed works. However, that doesn't mean that I dislike his FR stuff. And I love the character of the green bearded Piquel, which was meant as a joke to cheese off his editor, if I remember the story correctly. I think the thing is, he finds Dwarves as a sense of comedy, largely. I wouldn't look to him to really give dwarves a fair shake.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
RAS needs to kill Drizzt, and then never write in FR again.
I have to say, I'm surprised I'd disagree over something like this. Then again, I care not what happens to the Realms, so perhaps that's why I like the cotton candy writing that is Drizzt novels.
Out of curiousity, are you against all RAS's writing, or just his Forgotten Realms work?
Oh, and just so you know, he's basically said he'll never kill him unless he gets bored of him, and as of yet he's not bored of Drizzt. Even if other people are.
My only complaint about Chewbacca's death in the Star Wars expanded universe* is that the book wasn't all that well written. It was like Data's death in that [censored] terrible Star Trak movie.
If you're going to have an important, beloved character die, make sure you've got a solid story, with a great writer.
I haven't read any of his non shared world stuff, though. And the Cleric Quintet was good. I'm just not sure he's written anything worth more than emergency toilet paper since then.
I also recently developed a new level of grudge against him because I realized how important he's been to the whole "Dwarves are scottish, and their women bearded" thing that I despise with such vociferous vehemence I'm surprised it doesn't give me ulcers.
*RAS wrote that book
I think Chewie's death, because it was mandated of RAS to write it, destroyed his enjoyment and investment in writing that book. He hates to even talk about that book because it was of that. I think his best works, book-wise, are his non-licensed works. However, that doesn't mean that I dislike his FR stuff. And I love the character of the green bearded Piquel, which was meant as a joke to cheese off his editor, if I remember the story correctly. I think the thing is, he finds Dwarves as a sense of comedy, largely. I wouldn't look to him to really give dwarves a fair shake.
That's the thing, though. He writes dwarves as comic relief. As much as I like Pikel, dwarves as a whole make me want to burn every copy of every book he's ever written involving them.
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
Actually, they can, and I have. I have written 15+ adventures set in 4th ed FR, and I make extensive use of various 2nd and 3rd edition lore books (the Dalelands, the North, Silverymoon, etc). You have to adapt, but just because a feature is OLD doesn't mean it is GONE.
That doesn't mean we can't do with an update (which I would gladly help write), but the usefulness of those books transcends editions and timelines. In fact, I do have an idea for re-writing the Volo guides to make them work across editions.
Gomez
Sorry, you're totally right. I forgot Lost Empires of Faerun still has material that you can use.
Bad guys are different, good guys are different, populations were mass murdered, power struggles are different, the gods are different, magic is different and doesn't have the same place, the map is different, even the tone of the world has changed (that spot of light thing). The new realms are darker and more dangerous, the only thing in common with the older editions is a few city names and history.
Does that mean the old books can't be used as a source of inspiration? Of course not, you still can use these books to get ideas but at the end of the day, these adaptations you are talking about are pretty close to rewritting the parts you need. I'm not 16 anymore . The good old days were I could spend half my day writting my own campaign setting are over.
RAS needs to kill Drizzt, and then never write in FR again.
I have to say, I'm surprised I'd disagree over something like this. Then again, I care not what happens to the Realms, so perhaps that's why I like the cotton candy writing that is Drizzt novels.
Out of curiousity, are you against all RAS's writing, or just his Forgotten Realms work?
Oh, and just so you know, he's basically said he'll never kill him unless he gets bored of him, and as of yet he's not bored of Drizzt. Even if other people are.
My only complaint about Chewbacca's death in the Star Wars expanded universe* is that the book wasn't all that well written. It was like Data's death in that [censored] terrible Star Trak movie.
If you're going to have an important, beloved character die, make sure you've got a solid story, with a great writer.
I haven't read any of his non shared world stuff, though. And the Cleric Quintet was good. I'm just not sure he's written anything worth more than emergency toilet paper since then.
I also recently developed a new level of grudge against him because I realized how important he's been to the whole "Dwarves are scottish, and their women bearded" thing that I despise with such vociferous vehemence I'm surprised it doesn't give me ulcers.
*RAS wrote that book
I think Chewie's death, because it was mandated of RAS to write it, destroyed his enjoyment and investment in writing that book. He hates to even talk about that book because it was of that. I think his best works, book-wise, are his non-licensed works. However, that doesn't mean that I dislike his FR stuff. And I love the character of the green bearded Piquel, which was meant as a joke to cheese off his editor, if I remember the story correctly. I think the thing is, he finds Dwarves as a sense of comedy, largely. I wouldn't look to him to really give dwarves a fair shake.
That's the thing, though. He writes dwarves as comic relief. As much as I like Pikel, dwarves as a whole make me want to burn every copy of every book he's ever written involving them.
Ahh. I see the problem here. You want him to give dwarves a fair shake.
I see them as comic relief. Always. I honestly can't think of a single literary dwarf I didn't see as part clown, ever.
Then again, I also don't expect him to, on the whole, write 'serious' fiction. I read his stuff in a manner similar to how I'd buy and eat candy.
So, what in your experience made dwarves anything other than comical for you? I am genuinely curious.
"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." --Bill Cosby (1937- )
Vanador: OK. You ripped a gateway to Hell, killed half the town, and raised the dead as feral zombies. We're going to kill you. But it can go two ways. We want you to run as fast as you possibly can toward the south of the town to draw the Zombies to you, and right before they catch you, I'll put an arrow through your head to end it instantly. If you don't agree to do this, we'll tie you this building and let the Zombies rip you apart slowly. Dimitry: God I love being Neutral. 4th edition is dead, long live 4th edition. Salla: opinionated, but commonly right. fun quotesShow
If you can't understand how someone yelling at another person would make them fight harder and longer, then you need to look at the forums a bit closer.
quote author=56832398 post=519321747]Considering DnD is a game wouldn't all styles be gamist?
I am in the really hate (I know too much rage over a game) the 4e forgotten realms time line, but this is not the first time this nonsense has happened. I also hated spell-jammer when it got wedged into the realms. I would be happy if they would just let ED Greenwood build the realm just exactly as he would like it without any input from Wizards, Hasbro or the fans. It seems like every time one of the big game companies adds there “Improvements” to the realms I like them a little less. The fact that they have stated that they will continue to use the 4e time line makes me super sad I wish they would just make it stop, But what makes me even sadder is I will have to start a new character in a new Champaign setting when 5e comes out. But worst of all my wife is a huge realms fan so I may have to run them for her weather I like them or not. Maybe it’s time to return to gray-hawk, or just play hack-master instead.
My only complaint about Chewbacca's death in the Star Wars expanded universe* is that the book wasn't all that well written. It was like Data's death in that [censored] terrible Star Trak movie.
If you're going to have an important, beloved character die, make sure you've got a solid story, with a great writer.
I haven't read any of his non shared world stuff, though. And the Cleric Quintet was good. I'm just not sure he's written anything worth more than emergency toilet paper since then.
I also recently developed a new level of grudge against him because I realized how important he's been to the whole "Dwarves are scottish, and their women bearded" thing that I despise with such vociferous vehemence I'm surprised it doesn't give me ulcers.
*RAS wrote that book
I agree on the chewbacca front. However RAS cannot be blamed for Scottish Dwarves and bearded dwarven women. In the novels the first bearded dwarven women came about because of Douglas Niles in Darkwalker on Moonshae. Also other authors who have dealt with dwarves have also implied dwarven females were bearded. I wish I could remember but there was an AD&D module that showed a bunch of dwarven bearded females as well. In all the games I run Dwarven females have beards so it doesn't bother me. Dwarves are not a pretty race
Peter Jackson implied it as well. I doubt he did that because of RA salvatore. Also Gimli sounded ambiguosly scottish. At least as scottish as Bruenor sounded.
I think implying that the dwarves are scottish is something the READER does, not the author. I never thought RAS dwarves sounded scottish. It may be that I travel to Scotland so much that RAS does not seem to write proper inflections. At best Bruenor could be considered a fake scottish accent. Just because the word lassie, nay, and lad are used does not make a dwarf scottish
I picture the dwarvish language sounding far more scandanavian. Why not? That is where their mythology originates.
CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production.
I agree on the chewbacca front. However RAS cannot be blamed for Scottish Dwarves and bearded dwarven women. In the novels the first bearded dwarven women came about because of Douglas Niles in Darkwalker on Moonshae. Also other authors who have dealt with dwarves have also implied dwarven females were bearded. I wish I could remember but there was an AD&D module that showed a bunch of dwarven bearded females as well.
The Dwarves Deep 2nd Ed accessory by Ed Greenwood is the place to go for FR dwarven action.
. The good old days were I could spend half my day writting my own campaign setting are over.
