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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 12:31PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2012
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3. Geography of the settings. Look at a map of Toril, tell me one place where people would have high melatonin levels that races with skin live. You can't, there is almost no equatorial land on Toril and what little there is is inhabited by races without skin.
Look at a map of Dark Sun, tell me one place where the fair skin people would live.
Underground. Otherwise you are totally right, thats why I said it should be setting specific. I just used Toril for an example.
In my games players have always been Exceptional individuals, not Exceptions to the internal logic of the game world.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 12:50PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2011
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3. Geography of the settings. Look at a map of Toril, tell me one place where people would have high melatonin levels that races with skin live. You can't, there is almost no equatorial land on Toril and what little there is is inhabited by races without skin.
Look at a map of Dark Sun, tell me one place where the fair skin people would live.
Underground. Otherwise you are totally right, thats why I said it should be setting specific. I just used Toril for an example.
Underground, the traditional home of the Drow?
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 1:13PM
#13
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3. Geography of the settings. Look at a map of Toril, tell me one place where people would have high melatonin levels that races with skin live. You can't, there is almost no equatorial land on Toril and what little there is is inhabited by races without skin.
Look at a map of Dark Sun, tell me one place where the fair skin people would live.
Underground. Otherwise you are totally right, thats why I said it should be setting specific. I just used Toril for an example.
Underground, the traditional home of the Drow?
You are just being argumentative. He is suggesting using logic over past illogical design choices and you are saying that "no you can't, its already illogical".
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 2:01PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2008
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most current campaign settings are based on medival europe, most mideval europeans might never have seen a black or asian person.
Most north-western medieval Europeans didn't live on or near trade routes and therefore wouldn't have seen people from very far from their homes, especially in the centuries between the fall of the western Roman empire and the rise of Charlemagne. But medieval Europeans who had travelled to large cities, especially those around the Mediterranean, would probably have seen sub-saharan Africans.
Hoard: may earn you gp; Horde: may earn you xp.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 2:06PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2011
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I'm all for D&D being culturally and ethnically inclusive. While the default assumption may always be medeival European-inspired fantasy, I firmly believe that the core books should also support playing other culturally-inspired fantasy. Even the oldest published D&D setting, Greyhawk, has Arabic-inspired cultures, its own fantasy Africa quasi-analogue and so forth. Diversity makes things more interesting.
Playtest or get off the playtest boards.
---
I want justice for the voice that can't be heard
Vindication for every suffering and hurt
Let retribution hold dominion over earth
--Nemesis, VNV Nation
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 2:11PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2007
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most current campaign settings are based on medival europe, most mideval europeans might never have seen a black or asian person.
Most north-western medieval Europeans didn't live on or near trade routes and therefore wouldn't have seen people from very far from their homes, especially in the centuries between the fall of the western Roman empire and the rise of Charlemagne. But medieval Europeans who had travelled to large cities, especially those around the Mediterranean, would probably have seen sub-saharan Africans.
In Wolfram von Eschenbach's 13th century Parzival, Feirefiz has a Moorish mother and a European father. He is piebald.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 2:12PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2007
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Yeah, I don't buy the 'based on Medieval Europe' stuff. I've played for over 20 years and I think I can remember one game loosely based on that. I imagine I'm not alone. That you decide to base your games on that period has nothing to do with the game, IMO. I mean, unless Elves, Dwarves and Dragons were commonplace there and then. And, if they were, I've got a beef with my education. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.Section Six Soldier Front Door of the House of Trolls If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 2:15PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jan 18, 2010
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Diversity makes things more interesting.
Not all of the time, and it also depends on ones definition of "interesting".
By making everything available, you lessen the mystery and uniqueness of everything.
Also, there is no provable benefit of diversity simply for the sake of diversity.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."- John Stuart Mill
Old Man of the House of Trolls
Resident Hater
God of Anger and Hatred.
Mini Hate Machine
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 2:21PM
#19
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Yeah, I don't buy the 'based on Medieval Europe' stuff. I've played for over 20 years and I think I can remember one game loosely based on that. I imagine I'm not alone. That you decide to base your games on that period has nothing to do with the game, IMO. I mean, unless Elves, Dwarves and Dragons were commonplace there and then. And, if they were, I've got a beef with my education.
A) Bringing up homebrew is pointless because we are discussing how the game is presented not how individual groups play. Most published setting quite often are based on western european concepts and while there are exception it is still the rule.
B) It's an issue of virisimilitude. Just because dragons and elves are about doesn't mean all logically consistency gets thrown out the window in world building. Think about this: With dangerous monsters all over the place how often are people other than adventurers, soldiers and caravanner going to be able to travel super far from their home town let alone across a content? Not often enough for cosmopolitan populations that's for sure.
Moderated by
Dragonette
on Feb 23, 2012 - 08:38AM
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1 year ago ::
Feb 22, 2012 - 2:28PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2005
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By making everything available, you lessen the mystery and uniqueness of everything.
That argument works for the things that we want to be mysterious and unique in D&D, like aberrations and undead gods, but it doesn't work for this that we don't want to be mysterious and unique in D&D, like people of color. I can't think of a single good reason that we would want people of color to be mysterious in D&D. That just exacerbates the similar problem that we have in real life.
The only good excuse that I can think of is if you're actually deliberately trying to deliver themes and messages in your campaign about racism, ethnocentrism, etc. I've actually done that at times myself, though I typically use non-human races to get that metaphor across...
Also, there is no provable benefit of diversity simply for the sake of diversity.
Not exactly true. Diversity is its own benefit. The benefit to exposure to diversity is that you better learn how to deal with exposure to diversity.
Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TMSpeaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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