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Switch to Forum Live View I'm excited for D&D Next!
1 year ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 1:38AM #1
JohnLynch
Date Joined: Mar 26, 2008
Posts: 2,962
So the recent recaps from critical hits have me excited, particularly this one. Things I'm eagerly looking forward to:

Quick Character Creation
We've had reports that character creation is suppose to take anywhere from 15 minutes to 30 minutes (or longer if you really want to get into the nitty, gritty details). I come from a game called ArmageddonMUD where death is permanent. There are no gods to bring you back to life. No wizards or druids to cast the appropriate ritual. Death is final.

Unfortunately you can't play such a game in Dungeons & Dragons. Character Creation takes at least an hour. Thus death is a real punishment for the player. So by making character creation less time consuming, you can dial up the lethality.

Rolling for Ability Scores
Talk about speed. I just spent 1 minute determining my scores. They are 12, 16, 10, 9, 15, 15. Throw in an extra 4 minutes to decide which class, race and order to put these stats and I'm halfway there after 5 minutes.

Lets try a different roll as I want to demonstrate sometihng in particular. 4, 14, 9, 16, 14, 14. That's better. This character is actually not that bad in terms of 4th ed. Assuming he's human he'll have an 18 in his primary attack stat and 14 in three other mains stats with only two dump stats. So his defences will be fairly good. But he does have 1 fatal flaw that will help shape this character into a unique creation. He could be:
  • A wizard. He's got the intelligence for it and he could have 14 strength, con and wisdom. So he's quite hearty and strong for a wizard a nice chance of pace from those Strength 8 wizards you normally see running around. Unfortunately he's got 0 personality, smells a fair bit and isn't exactly the best looking person you've ever seen.
  • A fighter. He's got the strength for it and with 14 dex and con he's a fairly well rounded warrior. He's also got 14 charisma which certainly helps with the ladies and is a nice change of pace from the charisma 8 warriors you normally see roaming dungeons. While he might be slightly less intelligent then your average person, it's not particularly noticeable. Unfortunately he's not particularly wise. He's constantly offering to help rescue people from dangerous tribes of kobolds and goblins. And he's always the first to volunteer to explore some ancient long forgotten crypt. It's probably why he decided to become an adventurer.

    He's not the the richest of people. When he does get some coin he'll normally blow it all at the tavern. Although he's got a good heart and if he's stumbled upon quite a bit of wealth, he'll normally lend it to the single mother whose husband died at war, or the local church or orphanage. Like we said, he might not be the brightest person around, but he's got a good heart.
  • A cleric. He's got the strength to wade into the thick of battle. And with wisdom 14 he knows most of his prayers and can heal most wounds. He's also got a good head on his soldiers and has studied up on ancient battle tactics. While he might not the best looking person in town, he's able to keep his own and with a bit of work make himself look passable. Alas, he's quite clumsy. It's probably why the church sends him out to dungeons so often.

You get the idea. With a bit of thought you can come up with a unique character. Also unless you've been particularly unfortunate, you'll be able to make a character that can contribute in both combat and outside of combat. Also all GMs have known that if someone rolls abysmally, then they're always allowed to reroll (either all the stats or just a couple).


No Roles Need to be Filled


In 3.5e you had the idea that you needed an arcanist, healer, trap-disabler and tank. In 4th ed you need a Defender, Striker, Healer and according to the PHB a Controller (many groups prefer to swap out a controller for a second striker).


In 5th ed this apparently won't be necessary. Healers will be appreciated if they're in the party, but otherwise the group can get by if they lack a healer. Groups won't need arcanists nor will they need tanks. Supposedly a group of 4 rogues will be able to play just fine. If this is true, then that's amazing news. It helps with rolling for ability scores. You can roll for ability scores and then decide the class (as some classes need certain scores in order to be effective).


No more Wealth by Level Tables


So magic items are going to be removed from the math, meaning that DMs no longer need to hand out X gold by X level in order for the PCs to still be playable. Thus we can finally have low magic campaigns. Lawful Good PCs can hand over their share of the gold to the local orphanage. Drug addicted rogues can blow it all on ladies of the night and medicinal herbs. Monks who've taken a vow of poverty can actually keep their vows!


Hooray!


Shorter Combats


Today we had two combats run one after the other and in total they ran for 2 and a half hours. I was getting bored as there wasn't very much danger. I ended the fight on full HP with 5 temps spare and I had only spent 1 surge in the entire combat (regen 4 and a pacifist cleric). Our Wizard is horribly overpowered (DM has been handing him lots of cool magic items), but it's good because otherwise the fights would go even longer.


My 5th Ed Campaign


At the moment we are mid-paragon levels in Scales of War and H1-E3. Our GM doesn't always have time to prep the mods between sessions, so once the 5th ed playtest starts I'm going to offer to run one-shots every now and then using the 5th ed rules.


We had been exploring the Chaos Scar with an all dwarf party. Rather then convert those characters, I'm going to have them convince their city's government to build a Keep overlooking the Chaos Scar so that further expeditions could be based there, using members of all sorts of races from all over the world. Those dwarves will make cameo appearances, but for the adventures will focus on new characters.


I won't let my players make their characters beforehand. Instead I'll encourage them to wait until we get to the table so that they can make their characters as a group. With rolling for ability scores and using the fairly basic rules available for the playtest, we should be able to start the first adventure within 30 minutes.


I'll grab one of the Chaos Scar adventures we hadn't run and use it straight from the book (using 5th ed monsters and adjusting DCs for skill checks). It'll be permadeath (so no raise dead rituals). But ideally with 15 minute character creation time, it shouldn't take much effort to bring in new characters and the Keep has an in-game excuse for a constant stream of new characters to constantly turn up.


I haven't been excited about running a D&D campaign in over a year. And 5th edition will allow me to run a campaign vastly different to anything I could have run in 4th ed. Will I want all of my 5th ed campaigns to work like the one above? Of course not. But as a nice change of pace as a break while we finish our 4th ed campaigns, it sounds like it could be a lot of fun.

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 8:48AM #2
Bodyknock
Date Joined: Oct 24, 2007
Posts: 1,785
Quick character creation is great. Personally I don't like rolling for stats but fortunately they've already said 5e will still have a point buy system as well. So the original poster can DM with rolled stats, I can DM with point buy and everybody's happy.


I'm skeptical about the "no roles" claim. Sure, it would be great if every player could play whatever they want and their party would be just as kick-butt as everyone else. But as a practical matter that is never the case in any system. In 4e for instance everyone has Second Wind so in theory the need for a healing class is mitigated, but in practice parties without a healer run a serious risk of failure if the enemy gets a little lucky on the damage, etc. Also when two players have abilities that largely overlap it can make it so neither player feels their character is has something unique to contribute.


Therefore regardless of the rule system it's usually a good idea for characters to not have too much overlap in abilities. A good range of class roles in a party allows everybody to do something unique in most situations and also generally improves the party's effectiveness and survivability as well. A mix of roles is a usually a win-win in any game.



P.S.  I didn't see anything in the article talking about the removal of the wealth-by-level tables so I'm not sure where that is coming from in the original post. Where is this actually mentioned?
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 2:51PM #3
tsukimasu
Date Joined: Mar 15, 2010
Posts: 153
I'm all for the ability to roll a character quickly, but I think it's important that there's enough meat in the mechanics to allow for the creation of unique characters that work in different ways.

My real issue is with the idea of quick character creation being used as an excuse for 'dialing up lethality'. Our group has played a mixture of games from 4e D&D to Call of Cthulhu. We've had no deaths in 4e (although in the sessions I DMed, I'm proud to say that some characters have cut it pretty fine Wink), whereas in Cthulhu, one player went through three characters in the space of two sessions.

Here's the thing: as a player, I want to play a character I'm interested in, and I want to be able to invest in that character. I want the character to become part of the world. I don't want to bring a pad of prebuilt character sheets with me and tear one off the top every few minutes.

As a DM, I want the players to be scared of death - I don't want them to think of their characters as disposable. If a character dies, I want it to be because a player, or the group, made a mistake, rather than because of one dumb-luck dice roll. Wil Wheaton's Aeofel-in-the-acid-pit moment is a nice example.

Also, parachuting in additional characters always seemed pretty odd in Cthulhu; it had a tendency to distract, and to distort the game world ("Oh - you're yet another confidant of the late Professor Bexley? Yes, he did die in the most horrible circumstances - but how lucky we are to have you show up just at this moment! Here you go, you can carry Bexley's old stuff. By the way, have you written a will?")

At the end of the day, I think the best games are the ones where you can maintain tension, and when considering character death specifically, that lies somewhere between D&D4e and Call of Cthulhu.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 5:19PM #4
quindia
Date Joined: Aug 10, 2006
Posts: 168
I'm excited about D&D Next, too!
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 8:15PM #5
Darkman94
Date Joined: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 32

Feb 4, 2012 -- 8:48AM, Bodyknock wrote:


P.S.  I didn't see anything in the article talking about the removal of the wealth-by-level tables so I'm not sure where that is coming from in the original post. Where is this actually mentioned?




Since the designers stated that magic items were removed from the math, the OP assumed that therefore there would be no need for wealth-by-level tables, as the players wouldn't need a certain number of magic items to be balanced, and therefore wouldn't need a certain amount of wealth with which to purchase these items (seems to me to be a pretty valid assumption).

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 10:33PM #6
Kaldric
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2002
Posts: 2,618
Wealth by level tables were only the vaguest guideline anyway - the problem with them is when people started thinking they were a rule. As a rule, they're sadly deficient in comparison to a DM figuring what's balanced at his table.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 04, 2012 - 11:18PM #7
BlackKnight1239
Date Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1,311

Feb 4, 2012 -- 10:33PM, Kaldric wrote:

Wealth by level tables were only the vaguest guideline anyway - the problem with them is when people started thinking they were a rule. As a rule, they're sadly deficient in comparison to a DM figuring what's balanced at his table.




No, no, it's the reverse there bud.

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 05, 2012 - 1:42AM #8
Mr_Treegins
Date Joined: Aug 28, 2009
Posts: 206
I loved 4E but I am excited about D&D Next too!

The one thing that I am highly awaiting to see above everything else is fast, really fast and exciting combat.

Other than that, I want the game to be released even in late 2012 if Wotc can pull it out. That day can't come soon enough!
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 05, 2012 - 8:25AM #9
williamhm75
Date Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 8,460
I'm wary about it.  Lack of roles is going to suck.  I'm afraid the figher is once again  going to be useless.  Every game needs defined roles you need to know what everyones job is going to be.  Roles helped 4e a lot I think.  I have no idea why people are opposed to them.

As to quick creation that just means idiotically simple characters with no meaningful choices.  Rolling for stats is good and bad especially with how important stats are that guy with the 8 or 9 going to be way more penalized in this edition than in prior edditions.  if I dmed I'd probably not let anyone start with a stat below 12.
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1 year ago  ::  Feb 05, 2012 - 9:58AM #10
Plaguescarred
Date Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 16,535
I am excited bout D&D Next too.

It's promising. 
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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