Community

I agree that I would like to see D&DN be like Saga in the design of the classes.  One class of each power source, with different talent trees.  Specialized classes like the Paladin, Monk, or Bard would be Prestige Classes.  

Rather than have spells be dependant on feats, I'd like to see them be taken using the talent tree system witihn the Arcane power source class.  Saga really didn't have a "magic using class" as the Jedi was really closer to a fighter than a mage.  Instead, the "spells" of the game were available to any class with the appropriate feats.  Making spells dependant on talent trees would mean that the arcane power source class wouldn't have as many class features as a martial class, but magic-users really only tend to have spellcasting a class feature anyway.  Furthermore, the spells themselves would need to scale with level rather than a spell along the lines of Force Lightning with its 8d6 damage available at first level.  Finally, attacks with spells would need to depend on a 4E style attack roll rather than a skill check.

Speaking of skills, the skill system would probably need to mirrior 3.5's in the need for skill points in order to keep that base happy, but a module allowing for a Saga/4E style of system for skills would be awesome.  Maybe only class skills would get the +1/2 level bonus.

In all, I really do hope D&DN has options for those of us who like Saga's style of game but want to play D&D with the system.

SWSE had good ideas, but there were some major balance problems.

First off, the only Force power that scaled well with level and did consistent damage was Move Object. The rest stopped off somewhere around DC 20 or so. Move Object was the only one that could be scaled up to DC 40+.

It also desperately needed Skill Points instead of its wonky Skill Training system. Sure you "could" fly a ship without being trained in Pilot, but you'd crash almost instantly if you rolled below a 17 on a d20 if any Pilot checks were required. Having to sacrifice a Feat for another trained skill hurt even worse. Jedi were particularly hindered because, unlike spellcasters in 3.x, there wasn't a Force ability that could cover for everything.

Now, that having been said, a better formula would've been (CL + Ability Mod + Skill Points Invested) rather than (CL + Ability Mod + (5 if trained, otherwise 0)). Give everyone ((Int Mod or 1, whichever is greater) * 2) or so Skill Points per level. That would help justify some of those awful high Skill Challenge DCs.

Talents were good, but easy multiclassing made some Talent + Feat pairing too beardy. Particularly Trick Step + Dastardly Strike + Riflemaster + some of the Ambusher talents from the Soldier class in a high- Dex build that could one- shot someone with a good damage roll. 6d12 damage, ignoring the target's Dex bonus, anyone?

Ironically, though, Trick Step was almost a must-have talent because defenses were absurdly easy to stack. There were only a few ways to stack hit buffs (weapon upgrades gave +3, I think, plus Trick Step and Weapon Focus), while there were a bajillion ways to stack defenses without even putting on a suit of armor. I think average accuracy in SWSE is somewhere around 15%. That'll need serious buffing if we want to base 5e off it; I'd say about 60% or so.

And one other personal issue. For the love of Pete, don't restrict the more flavorful books to absurdly small print runs! I'm still looking for a copy of Knights of the Old Republic, which had such a small print run as to be going for several hundred dollars on Amazon, if you can find it at all.

Jan 19, 2012 -- 5:53PM, ankiyavon wrote:

Jan 19, 2012 -- 5:50PM, Qmark wrote:

Jan 19, 2012 -- 5:35PM, Anubis_Reynard wrote:

The biggest complaint I've heard about Saga, from my sometimes saga group, is that Force powers are broken beyond belief.

Not overly.
What Saga does well, is go ahead and let the Jedi and Heavy Weapons Guys do all the killing, while other characters get to be 'fixers' and mr. moneybags.

You are completely not disagreeing with him.

Saga was balanced worse than any edition of D&D I have played (2E and on), to the point where I am absolutely shocked to consistently see posters on this board claiming it was a good system.

It was a good system for playing Starwars.