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Jan 20, 2012 -- 10:42AM, Dkonen wrote:

So.... you think inviting a moral debate should get a thread shut down?
You don't want anyone talking about what *you* find offensive.
So you want to censor what you morally disagree with and I am a "Big Brother"
Irony?

Honestly, I have no power to do so, I am not a dev nor a staff member. I was merely trying to point out that bigotry based on personal views is a harmful and offensive stance and should never be acceptred in any community. Claiming your morals are superior and anyone else who has different morals is evil and wrong or at least should deny the right to defend themselves, or indeed even mention it....

Wow.

You clearly did not read or understand what I posted. Your responses make no sense whatsoever. 

reiterated: it isn't necessarily the discussion of comparative morals, or the presence/absence of sex and/or violence

It's the discussion of: what level is acceptable? Where? Would you buy mature products? What do you consider "the line" that shouldn't be crossed to be? How can it be handled reponsibly?

It isn't "what is good and evil?", that's the alignment discussion
It isn't "what is mature content?", that's a legality

It's: Would you buy it, why or why not? Where do you want the line drawn? How can we handle this with grace and tact?

If you don't want it, say so, and say that you morally object and that you don't think it can be handled with grace and tact and then allow others the same rights you have just been given, that being, the right to voice an opinion.

Besides, it's not like just *one* of us gets to talk. All of us can post. No need to deny someone else out of fear you will not be heard.

Now if it's only your voice that you think has a right to be heard....mmmm... to paraphrase: "those who would remove the rights of others deserve naught but to have their own removed."

Jan 20, 2012 -- 10:52AM, Dkonen wrote:

reiterated: it isn't necessarily the discussion of comparative morals, or the presence/absence of sex and/or violence

It's the discussion of: what level is acceptable? Where? Would you buy mature products? What do you consider "the line" that shouldn't be crossed to be? How can it be handled reponsibly?

It isn't "what is good and evil?", that's the alignment discussion
It isn't "what is mature content?", that's a legality

It's: Would you buy it, why or why not? Where do you want the line drawn? How can we handle this with grace and tact?

If you don't want it, say so, and say that you morally object and that you don't think it can be handled with grace and tact and then allow others the same rights you have just been given, that being, the right to voice an opinion.

Besides, it's not like just *one* of us gets to talk. All of us can post. No need to deny someone else out of fear you will not be heard.

Now if it's only your voice that you think has a right to be heard....mmmm... to paraphrase: "those who would remove the rights of others deserve naught but to have their own removed."

I believe I answered the question just fine. And I am not here to supress anyone's opinion. So stop trying to supress mine.

Jan 19, 2012 -- 10:19PM, hatta wrote:

Jan 19, 2012 -- 9:59PM, DoctorBadWolf wrote:

Jan 19, 2012 -- 8:46PM, kaamoku wrote:

I generally play with adults and include adult themes in game.  I don't need those themes explained in my core rule books.  5th ed can stay PG 13 and let me (independantly or with optional adult themed releases) add as much adult content in as my gaming group is comfortable with.

That being said, I don't consider bare breasts or casual nudity in fantasy art work as adult only.  I don't need gratuitous nudity but full expect to see my nymphs and satyrs mostly uncovered. 

This.

Seconded. Though I personally feel that PG-13 would be a step up from most 4e material, which though it isn't exactly devoid of "naughty" bits is fairly tame.

Agreed.

wrecan: False, in one very important regard. The idea that only the immature would get use out of books featuring sexual content, pleasure pain, and other "illicit" material.

Had you restricted that part of your post to the "gorno" material, I might agree, but since you did not, I find the whole post lacking.

Because even the above point aside, mature content isn't just about book keeping. It's about recognizing the exisistence of evil as something both less and more than the Asmodeus model. That is, that evil also comes in the form of a family man who kills children because something is wrong in his head, or the crusader of justice who has started to overreach, becoming ever more extreme. Mature content is about the bad guys in the campaign not always being the followers of Bane, but sometimes Paladins of gods like Torm (FR).

It's also about sex. Not bared breasts for the sake of bared breasts, but a frank and open acceptance of the sexual nature of all types of animals, and how it sometimes interacts with every other aspect of life. Mature content is about not shying away from controversial subjects. If someone wants to play a character that is, or used to be, a sex worker, that is mature content. If someone wants to play a character who has left his Knightly Order because they have become extremist hypocrits, that is also mature content.


What we are asking for is for both of these broad types of mature content to be dealt with and assumed as an acceptable part of DnD.


Oh, and for the art to be a bit less white-washed and artificially tame.