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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 9:26PM
#61
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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The spellplague just has to die, wether its a retcon,(which I personally prefer), or a continuation where Mystra gets better from being dead and the world goes back to normal. I don't even care if all the chosen and Elminster die to make it happen. i want all the gods and the the Lore back.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 9:34PM
#62
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2009
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I think it's very possible to remove the spellplague as a relevant force (it was never even supposed to be a big deal in the actual gameplay), restore what was lost, and make the FR better than ever before, all without breaking anyone's toys.
Re: retcon, the attitude of "I'm not going to play in the sandbox while other people have toys I don't like," is what got us into this mess in the first place. WotC attempted to cater to people with exactly that attitude, counting on their fans to follow along, and reached too far. I sincerely hope they will not do so again... Which is exactly what a reboot or retcon would be.
No one has to lose here--everyone can win, including the setting.
Cheers
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 10:05PM
#63
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The actual FR Campaign Setting I imagine is less a travelogue and more a guide about HOW TO RUN A FR GAME. Half the book is about the concepts, the story, the gods, the villainous organizations, etc. Then you have the second half about one area (say, the SWORD COAST), which gets you started running a FR campaign.
This is how I'd like to see an initial Realms book handled, just give people new to the Realms enough to get started. Anything more bloated may be too daunting.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 10:18PM
#64
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2009
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@GR: Well put. FTW!
There should be a simple baseline, from which you are invited to expand. There's so much out there already, but lots to be added. Give us a general guide to FR, then a series of campaign settings: Neverwinter (done), Menzoberranzan (coming soon), Cormyr, Waterdeep, Dalelands, etc.
Cheers
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 10:39PM
#65
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2003
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I think it's very possible to remove the spellplague as a relevant force (it was never even supposed to be a big deal in the actual gameplay), restore what was lost, and make the FR better than ever before, all without breaking anyone's toys. Re: retcon, the attitude of "I'm not going to play in the sandbox while other people have toys I don't like," is what got us into this mess in the first place. WotC attempted to cater to people with exactly that attitude, counting on their fans to follow along, and reached too far. I sincerely hope they will not do so again... Which is exactly what a reboot or retcon would be. No one has to lose here--everyone can win, including the setting. Cheers
But what if the majority of FR fans dislike the spellplague and the design decisions behind it? Should it be kept in a 5e FR, catering to a minority and continuing to leave the majority of fans out in the cold? That's the route of damaging an IP's value in the long term if you don't listen to the fans, and accept that the Spellplague was a poor decision.
Yes, some people might like it, but let them have it as a possible alternate future or let them use it in their home games, but if it means that FR is a viable game world in the future or withers from fan response to unpopular changes, that's an easy decision to make. Some people, yourself included, tried to make the best of a bad situation and produced some memorable characters and stories, but here's a chance to reverse the mistakes that were made and integrate some of those people and places into FR rather than the PoL/FR mashup in 4e.
I don't have any insight to how sales were for the 4e FR material, but given the activity here on the FR forums and others like Candlekeep now compared to at any point during 3e, it's suggestive at least. I would hope that a 5e FR could return FR to being something I can recognize as FR versus something that IMO would have been better as a new setting unto itself.
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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1 year ago ::
Jan 18, 2012 - 10:40PM
#66
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Ummm for the love of Helm can we all please agree to stop calling Neverwinter, menzoberranzan, cormyr etc campaign settings please.
to me a campaign setting would be the world at large, which would be Toril.
so please can we just call Waterdeep Myth Drannor, the dalelands, Icewind Dale micro settings since they are all a small part of a much larger world.
simple baseline, you mean like the missing Roll of Years aka the harptos calanedar??
that was kicked off the bus for the 4e realms..... which btw was third on the list of things that annoyed me the most about tthe 4e realms?
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
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1 year ago ::
Jan 19, 2012 - 1:38AM
#67
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2005
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(...)
1. Multiple Eras
3. Age of Heroes, 1470-1480s (4e, 100 years after the Spellplague): A hundred years after the cataclysm of the Blue Fire, the Realms has changed in some ways and held true in many others. With many of its legendary champions receding into the shadows, the Realms has never needed heroes more. In Cormyr, we see the court of King Foril, the enduring schemers seeking to destroy the weakening Obarskyr family, and a little of Elminster's activities in the recent novels.
(We could add a 4th option: Age of Change, 1385-1400, which covers the Wailing Years.)
I actually like the idea of multiple eras, my one concern being the Spellplague which will 'nuke' many accomplishments of the novel's and player's heros from the earlier eras. Think of the 3e Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch -Adventures... the heros managed to save Mystra, only to have her die 'offstage'.
So to me the Age of Heros should be a time where the 3e heroes or their descendants should have the possibility to set things 'right'. The Spellplague's damages should be healed and not come to the forefront.
But some fear that this will be soley done by the novel's heroes, but I think that this view/fear is unjustified if done right.
For Example: Maybe Elminster and Crew will bring back Mystra, mayby El himself will become the next Azuth? Who knows? But who will spread the word of the returned Goddess of Magic (rebuilding/reclaiming temples) and head her new church in the end? Who will replace the fallen or ascendet Chosen and wrestle mad demigods (like Obould I and Fzoul) to protect their returned goddess? Who will reclaim Halruaa and rebuilt it for the Glory of the Lady of Mysteries and take it's throne? The player's heroes!
Other examples might inclued powerplays in Waterdeep to gain a place among it's Masked Lords and help return it's splendor, rebuilding Neverwinter, leading a returned Crinti army to reclaim Dambrath from the Shifters (for those who like a darker turn and dislike eberronic interlopers  ), defending the Dales/Myth Drannor/Cormyr from an Netherese attack via flying cities, bringing Eilistraee or other gods back seeing that it worked for Mystra, leading a small noble house of drow up the ladder in Menzoberranzan or other drow cities, helping the dwarves of Mythril Hall fight an orc horde while Drizzt is busy in Neverwinter or the elves of the high forest to rebuilt Earlann.
There are numerous possibilities for player heros to star in epic adventures without the novel's heros stealing the spotlight. So novel and player heros can co-exist if there are left enough 'blank niches' for the players to fill.
Best wishes
Lirdolin
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1 year ago ::
Jan 19, 2012 - 1:48AM
#68
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XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
Date Joined:
May 31, 2003
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I think it's very possible to remove the spellplague as a relevant force (it was never even supposed to be a big deal in the actual gameplay), restore what was lost, and make the FR better than ever before, all without breaking anyone's toys. Re: retcon, the attitude of "I'm not going to play in the sandbox while other people have toys I don't like," is what got us into this mess in the first place. WotC attempted to cater to people with exactly that attitude, counting on their fans to follow along, and reached too far. I sincerely hope they will not do so again... Which is exactly what a reboot or retcon would be. No one has to lose here--everyone can win, including the setting. Cheers
But what if the majority of FR fans dislike the spellplague and the design decisions behind it? Should it be kept in a 5e FR, catering to a minority and continuing to leave the majority of fans out in the cold? That's the route of damaging an IP's value in the long term if you don't listen to the fans, and accept that the Spellplague was a poor decision.
Yes, some people might like it, but let them have it as a possible alternate future or let them use it in their home games, but if it means that FR is a viable game world in the future or withers from fan response to unpopular changes, that's an easy decision to make. Some people, yourself included, tried to make the best of a bad situation and produced some memorable characters and stories, but here's a chance to reverse the mistakes that were made and integrate some of those people and places into FR rather than the PoL/FR mashup in 4e.
I don't have any insight to how sales were for the 4e FR material, but given the activity here on the FR forums and others like Candlekeep now compared to at any point during 3e, it's suggestive at least. I would hope that a 5e FR could return FR to being something I can recognize as FR versus something that IMO would have been better as a new setting unto itself.
QFT! In all honesty, let's say they do reverse things to a time before the Spellplague. The designers have really done all the damage they could do with 4th edition and the only thing that could really make things worse is actually shelving the Realms forever. Wizards really has nothing to lose and it's very obvious that Pre-Spellplague was popular and after was not.
If people don't like the changes then they can use their 4th edition material just like we were asked to use our 3rd and 2nd edition material. Defenders of 4th edition through that statement out a lot when we would voice our distaste of the current Realms: "Just use your old stuff, there is nothing stopping you." Well now I'm curious to see what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 19, 2012 - 1:51AM
#69
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XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek
Date Joined:
May 31, 2003
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Please please please don't leave the Realms as they are simply because it may invalidate some novels and events that happened in 4th edition. I'm sorry if that gets reversed but there has to be a time when mistakes are acknowledged and are able to be rectified.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 19, 2012 - 2:27AM
#70
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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I think it's very possible to remove the spellplague as a relevant force (it was never even supposed to be a big deal in the actual gameplay)
That is possible, but it does mean people have to tone down the references to it.
Neverwinter was full of playscarred references. A serious amount of (initial) novels dealt with it. You have to start toning down current material if you want to make it believable that it isn't a great deal in a the next iteration.
I would add a only few years to the 4th ed timeline for the 5th ed 'current' erra. Use those few years to make a few minor edits (remove the most silly ideas, add a few elements and play out some conflicts), and in the new material tone down the spellplague a bit. One doens't actually have to change much - just make it less 'in your face'.
Also, I think we might do with a bit of extra mythos in the next version. More background on deities, for instance. Bringing back a few deities may not be bad (i.e. I think Lolth needs a bit of competition), or establishing the different (and optional) aspects of some deities may add bit of depth.
I.e. in the adaptations of some of the Neverwinter Dunegon adventures I referenced Sehanine Moonbow - while she is an aspect of Selune, I feel it makes sense that the elves still use that name. I think it makes her more interesting. More mythos is good.
I also would like to see some of the LFR events, NPCs, or locations incorporated in a new FR. I do think LFR managed to enrich the setting.
Oh: and please leave returned Abeir out of a FR setting book. It is a nice continent, but it is a separate setting from Faerun and deserves its own book.
Gomez
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