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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 6:05PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2007
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There should only be one physical product to purchase in order to sit down and have a whole game - prior editions releasing the core set as separate books a month (or more) apart was just plain silly...
That said, I don't care if it's a boxed "basic set," that just gets you started, a 3 volume set in a slipcase, or one single 500-600 page book - so long as I can reach out and grab just the one object and go play.
Careful, man. That much logic might be illegal on the internet. - Salla
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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 6:17PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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4e did something no other edition did- it releaseed all core books in the same month. One book was pushed back on the schedule, and another was pushed up from a later month.
Should all the core books be released at once, or do you think they should spread them out, giving more time for playtesting/writing?
All at once. I liked being able to preorder the entire core set for 4e (and the fact that they came in a little cardboard sleeve which is pretty convenient for storage and carrying them). 3e annoyed me right from the start with publishing the PHB and then making me wait for the rest of the books we needed to run the game. I ended up picking up the Swords & Sorcery Creature Collection (which was a pretty awesome book anyway, totally worth the purchase, as was Relics & Rituals) long before I bought the MM.
EDIT: Besides, once the PHB is published, the mechanics have pretty much been decided on. All three books are linked. Publishing one so that you can playtest another doesn't really make sense, since changes to one could effect the one that's already been published, and I don't want to go back to needing pages and pages of errata.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 6:38PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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I mostly wonder how many modules it will take to have the "core books".
Oh that's a damn good question. I've been curious about that one myself. I don't want to have all the rules I need scattered across half a dozen books that take a year to release.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 6:47PM
#14
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Well, first, death to the term 'core'. If the system is intended to be modular, then one needs to be able to exclude any modules. No assumptions can be made about something being used simply because it was in the first book.
Secondly, they should definitely release all the books at the same time. If they discover they need more time to playtest or edit, move them ALL back as necessary.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 6:58PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Well, first, death to the term 'core'. If the system is intended to be modular, then one needs to be able to exclude any modules. No assumptions can be made about something being used simply because it was in the first book.
Quite the opposite. In order to design adventures and such, there needs to be some basic assumptions. "Core" should refer to the default set of rules, with no extra options tacked on. It's much easier to write additional material with "core" in mind than "this adventure is designed for characters created with PHB modules A, B, and D, DMG module G, and Unearthed Arcana module C".
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 7:34PM
#16
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With the line of thinking you guys have going here, the "Core" book should be like the Essentials Rules Compendium is now. No player powers/classes/etc just the mechanics to run the game. Thats it, there is the core.
Then perhaps a Monster Manual book that has all the rules in it for races that characters can be created with. Kill 2 birds with one stone there. Seperate small block for the PC class stuff and the rest to be used by the DM for encounter building.
Then a 3rd book with all the classes in it and gear that fits those classes, including Magic Items. Still have choice of what to buy and can tailor it to fit what you want.
The monster manual/class book can be paired down to reduce cost and not give people what they don't want. That way adventures know what CORE rules the people will be using and then the DM cna adjust from there. A good DM changes his game on the fly to fit what his players want, so I don't think that would be a really big deal for most.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 8:09PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2007
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I would like to see the "core books" released all at once so that we can really start playing. One thing that causes me some concern is this whole "modular" design philosphy and how many modules will have to be released and when for those of us who like the complexity of power combos etc to get a decent amount of material to play with. I am a fan of 4E and while I don't think 4E was as complex as 3.5 I thought 4E out of the gate with just the PHB offered a decent amount of material that was easy to understand and for a power gamer to pour over and come up with combos and start plotting builds for his/her character for level 1-30.
My concern is how simple will the initial rules release be? I mean, if it is something as simple as the Red Box set then while I will remain open to 5E I will tell you that my friends and myself will probably buy the book but delay playing the actual game until we the game releases the number of elective complexities that would appeal to a veteran game group who likes power combos, the tactical side of DnD combats, and joy that comes from building a character with well thought out mechanics.
Fallstorm
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1 year ago ::
Jan 16, 2012 - 10:13PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jan 16, 2012
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All the books should come out together. That way, players can start right away and not have to worry about not having everything they need for it.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 17, 2012 - 2:57AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jan 10, 2012
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Bring them all out at once, or follow Pathfinder in making one book with everything. (yes I know, it doesn't have monsters but that made sense to me. rules in one book and monsters and adventures all separate. just my opinion though.) Personally I would rather pay 50 dollars for one book that includes both PH and DMG content than 60 plus on two books.
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1 year ago ::
Jan 17, 2012 - 3:19AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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4e did something no other edition did- it releaseed all core books in the same month. One book was pushed back on the schedule, and another was pushed up from a later month.
Should all the core books be released at once, or do you think they should spread them out, giving more time for playtesting/writing?
Depends what's in each core book. I personally think they're going to bury the PHB/DMG/Monster Manual sacred cow and resurrect the "Basic"/"Advanced"/"Expert" model. Here are the books I think we'll get as the 3 core books.
D&D Basic
This covers levels 1-10 of play. The Table of Contents would look something like this:
- Introduction - 11 pages
- Making Characters - 19 pages
- Character Races - 18 pages
- Classes - 65 pages
- Feats - 47 pages
- Equipment - 22 pages
- Combat - 32 pages
- Additional Rules - 10 pages
- DMing Introduction - 4 pages
- Adventures - 4 pages
- Building Encounters - 4 pages
- Traps - 3 pages
- Rewards - 10 pages
- Monsters - 66 pages
- Index - 1 page
- Character Sheet - 2 pages
D&D AdvancedThis covers levels 11-20 of play and builds upon the previous book:
- Introduction - 4 pages
- Character Classes - 26 pages
- Paragon Paths/Prestige Classes - 50 pages
- Multiclassing - 10 pages
- Feats - 11 pages
- Equipment - 47 pages
- DMing Introduction - 4 pages
- Adventures Revisited - 22 pages
- Campaigns - 36 pages
- World Building - 24 pages
- Monsters - 83 pages
- Index - 1 page
D&D ExpertThis covers levels 21-30 of play and would build upon the previous two books:
- Introduction - 4 pages
- Character Classes - 26 pages
- Epic Destinies - 8 pages
- Feats - 47 pages
- Equipment - 11 pages
- DMing Introduction - 4 pages
- Group Storytelling - 30 pages
- Encounters Revisited - 42 pages
- Organizations - 15 pages
- Coninuing the adventures - 15 pages
- Monsters - 111 pages
- Index - 1 page
Each of these would be considered Core and would be hardcovers containing 318 pages each. We would then see other subsystems revolve and expand upon these concepts released as OPTIONAL supplements (for example, skills are lacking in these books with them simply being handled as ability checks. There would be a softcover supplement that adds skills to the game and revamps and reintroduces skill challenges). Under this model you could actually afford to have the books released 2 or even 3 months apart. Another advantage of this model is that you're forcing the players to buy books they otherwise wouldn't, which helps WotC recoup costs they would otherwise not have. It's a very cynical approach, but I personally would be willing to accept it. If however they stick with the PHB/DMG/MM model, I think they should publish them all in the same month. That was a good idea they had with 4th ed.
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