Community

I didn't mind the essentials line but I wish they were more modular. Kind of like the build options when 4e first launched. You had two distinct builds for the Ranger (Two-weapon Fighter/ Archer) later they added Beast master. I like how I could switch a few feats and abilities to have a different build... I don't like having to create the character as a completely different class to see the changes. Under class it should have an option for build and if you select it will pre-select relevant powers for you or limit your choices on each of the following screens. If you leave it blank you can see all the options for the class. Just a pet-peeve. On the other hand... if you switch out core mechanics of a class or change relevant ability scores... it's a new class don't try to say it's a variant.

I'd personally like to see them keep (or improve on) the A/E/U/D system. I found it was the most innovative part of 4e.

It'd also be nice to see some of the old spells from the earlier editions make a reappearance somehow. I missed shape change/other spells not being included in the basic book. I also hope they'll actually keep the player's handbook to one book this time and include all the old classes. Sure, it may weigh 30 lbs. but I'd still rather have all the basic info in one book. It makes is simpler. Also, in my experience, players tend to play characters included in the 1 Player's Handbook much more often than anything else (especially new players).

Thanks for reading.

David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG
www.amazon.com/Challenger-Free-Roleplayi...

Apr 25, 2012 -- 2:33AM, CardinalTeplin wrote:

I liked that encounter design and character design was quicker and easier.  3.X had a problem in that very few people had the time to write adventures, because of all the mechancis involved, which meant either leaving much of the mechanics to estiamation, or having a very long lead time to running games. 

The reason I don't play 4e is that the encounter design and character design is quicker and easier, neatly removing all the decisions and changepoints that I found interesting.  I couldn't make a character that was notably different from anyone else's, and my encounters were forced into a mould that I don't particularly enjoy. 

In essence, took a lot of design elements that were previously available (most of the options people seem to enjoy here were present in some form in 3.X, although you had to look darned hard to find them, and they didn't always work as well) and enforced their use in particular combinations that would make a balanced game.  The result was a tight fast game that was simple enough to bring many people into the hobby.  I played 4e with people who really enjoyed it, and wouldn't otherwise have played.  It also resulted in a game that I didn't particularly enjoy playing, and the only edition thus far that enforced a playstyle I didn't like. 

I totally agree, Cardinalteplin. Your experience almost exactly mirrors mine. I never played 4e until a group of my friends started a game. That game never took off and we haven't played it in weeks even though we're still all 1st level. It's sad, but true.

I also agree about the playstyle issue. 4e is a very tight and fast system, it has a lot of good ideas, but it also enforces a particular playstyle. If you're not in favor of that playstyle you're kind of out of luck.

I would basically 'powergame' my character to be absolutely lethal (and way-too-powerful) just so I could 'role-play' how I wanted to without dying. Ha ha.

I hope 5e addresses these issues. I've heard that they're planning on incorporating it more in the rules which would be great. Here's crossing my fingers.

--David L. Dostaler
Author, Challenger RPG a Free Roleplaying Game

I've been collecting and painting fantasy miniatures for 22 years this summer, so what 4e did right for me was make combat exciting and work very well on the tabletop without disrupting the core RPG experience.  I hear people say it can get really slow, but I tend to never play with more than 4 PCs and if I do, I can often find ways to quickly scale the encounter without adding more monsters and thus additional dead time.

I don't feel that 4e significantly changed out of combat 'roleplay' because that is largely a vocal back-and-forth with my group and I (or whomever felt like running a quick adventure one night) tend to wing a lot of tests and construct a more elaborate outcome based on a notably extreme failure or success.

But if I was forced to choose just one thing, it would be Power sources.  Power sources are something that I was glad to see in print as it has always been a theme for me for as long as I've been roleplaying.  For me, every story element has a power source and colour and feel that all blend together.  If I'm going to craft a dungeon, I start with a power source, and then build the space in my mind; what colour would the lair radiate, what emotion and feeling does it bring, what sort of creatures would appropriately populate the area.  Also race, class and path correlation to power sources and how they allow the characters to better connect with power sources in the game world. 

A quick list of other standout features would be; Solo monsters and minion swarms, changes to mage and cleric combat, characters in general feeling more heroic and the plethora of retrainable powers allowing you to create a very unique and interesting combat role, condensing skills and finally to agree with quite a few other people in this thread, Bards are actually really cool! I don't often play a player character, but when I do, I prefer Halfling Bards

Apr 26, 2012 -- 6:10PM, Velcthulhu wrote:

I'll try to keep this positive, in the spirit of the thread, although I disagree with a number of your items. Things I liked about 4th edition:
Retraining is fine (and easily houseruled away if you disagree).
Not rewarding constant resting is good for game flow.
Getting rid of prepared spellcasting was the single best thing the system did, by far.
Consolidation of skills was done well (eg, "Athletics" instead of Climb/Jump/Swim all seperate)
No randomization in character creation
No stats on items (this is really a balance issue more than anything else, the item with your favorite stat on it was always the best buy for you in 3.X)
Fluff alignment
I... can't think of anything else I liked. I'll try and keep my hatred to myself...

I agree with pretty much all your 'likes' of 4e, Velcthulu.

I also liked the power system in principal (if not execution). I think it was 4e's biggest innovation. Magic items also got kind of under-powered.

--David
Author, Challenger RPG