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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 4:04PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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When I think about the art on CCG and LCG cards it makes me weep for the missed opportunity.
Well said.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 6:38PM
#32
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To be honest, I rather like the idea of having the tiles be dove-tailed/bow-tied. It makes it so much easier than trying to keep them all together...if the tile route really is the way WotC is going with this. I myself have enjoyed playing all 3 of the D&D Boardgames so far, but I must admit I miss the maps! At the store I work at, we actually bought the 24x36 poster toploaders and had them stacked near the D&D/RPG area ready for use.
Obviously, this creates a bit of a space problem for smaller stores or for home use. So I thought of something else. It may not work well for whatever Starter WotC decides to use for this (depends on how large a box/display it'll be) but maybe it can make both groups happy.
What if, rather than a fold-up map (prone to creases/stains/tears) or tiles (easy to misplace/shift) they instead simply made larger, and slightly thinner tiles? Not the normal 8x4 or 8x8 sizes we've come to expect from the Drizzt/Wrath/Ravenloft games, but maybe a 10x10 or even a massive 12x12 size? I would think if they were slightly thinner they wouldn't weigh much more than the regular tiles (if at all) and they would have fewer parts to accidently move around on the table. They would still be the size of a folded map, and would have the durability of a tile...
What does everyone think?
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2 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2011 - 7:24PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2009
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I like this idea. I only end up using the largest (8x8) tiles, not the smaller ones, from the existing sets. The larger tiles stay together well, so maybe even larger would be better.
But, to me, the biggest factor (other than the game rules) is prepainted vs. unpainted minis. I own a couple of the adventure games and several hundred prepainted minis for the current skirmish game, so I've used both types.
When multiple similar minis are on the board, painted minis are *much* more discriminable than unpainted minis. For people with bad vision, like me, this is a real problem. Also, as Foxman said, many people don't paint well -- an understatement in my case. If you don't paint them, it doesn't seem like much fun to collect a bunch of grey minis.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2011 - 7:49AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2005
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What if, rather than a fold-up map (prone to creases/stains/tears) or tiles (easy to misplace/shift) they instead simply made larger, and slightly thinner tiles? Not the normal 8x4 or 8x8 sizes we've come to expect from the Drizzt/Wrath/Ravenloft games, but maybe a 10x10 or even a massive 12x12 size? I would think if they were slightly thinner they wouldn't weigh much more than the regular tiles (if at all) and they would have fewer parts to accidently move around on the table. They would still be the size of a folded map, and would have the durability of a tile...
What does everyone think?
I think its a clever idea and thinking outside the box.
If they do go with larger tiles (10x10 or 12x12) I would prefer that they remain compatiable with the Dungeon Tiles line (ie thickness).
That being said, there is a real advantage to the 8x8 size.
- Transporability - bigger tiles make it hard for people to pack them up and take them with them places.
- Map Size - if you make a map with the 8x8 tiles in a 2x2 block, it seems just the right size for a map. 10x10 might be ok, but it might be a little too large.
- Manufacturing - 8.5" x 11" is a standard size, creating and shipping an 8x8 tile is fairly easy.
Heres an idea - drop the straight walls on the 8x8 tiles and let the unboardered edges be assumed to be walls. You wouldnt need the small 4x8 tiles if you did.
Or keep the walls and make them 8x10 tiles (still fitting on an 8.5"x11" sheet) - with the short side being a wall.
For capping walls you could fit 2 4x8 tiles for the start areas on one sheet and then a 2x8 tile as a cap tile and fit it all on one sheet. Do the same again with another sheet, haveing 2 4x8 cap tiles and one 2x8 cap tile.
Anyways lots of good brainstorming 
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2 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2011 - 9:38AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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What if, rather than a fold-up map (prone to creases/stains/tears) or tiles (easy to misplace/shift) they instead simply made larger, and slightly thinner tiles? Not the normal 8x4 or 8x8 sizes we've come to expect from the Drizzt/Wrath/Ravenloft games, but maybe a 10x10 or even a massive 12x12 size?
I love the idea. I would speculate that shipping and storage considerations might make the idea less likely. Still, it's actually been done: Rackham's line of 12"x12" fantasy reversible gaming tiles have worked pretty darn well for me, so the idea has merit.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2011 - 9:47AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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Heres an idea - drop the straight walls on the 8x8 tiles and let the unboardered edges be assumed to be walls. You wouldnt need the small 4x8 tiles if you did.
Fair point: the walls on the borders of the demo tiles take up a lot of real estate and seem only to serve to limit tile combinations (though there might be other reasons for the walls that I haven't discovered).
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2 years ago ::
Sep 15, 2011 - 9:35AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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My 2 cents, as someone who bought a lot of minis, played DDM for years, and owns all of the new Wizards board games:
1. Please start painting the miniatures again. I know it costs more, but it hurts my soul that the new Jarlaxle miniature isn't a painted one. Peter, I know you're a master painter, but if you could see me paint a miniature, you'd understand why pre-painted miniatures was a god-send for people like me. Plus, I think to stay competitive with the other gaming companies who are releasing painted minis, you're going to have to paint the minis.
2. This tiles thing confuses me. I thought there were major reasons DDM switched from tiles to maps, mainly time and setup issues. The maps just seem so each and allow for quick, cheap variety.
3. I'm torn on flat vs. interconnected edges if you do go the tile route. I own A LOT of regular dungeon tiles. The fact that you might make me buy new sets with connectors on the sides rubs me the wrong way, even though I own the board games as well. If you're going to package and sell add-on tiles, they better be part of miniatures sets if they're not compatible with the dozens of dungeon tiles you've already released. I would think you have to make them flat-edged so they can be used in regular D&D games and the regular D&D tiles could be used in the skirmish game.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 15, 2011 - 10:02AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2005
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Heres an idea - drop the straight walls on the 8x8 tiles and let the unboardered edges be assumed to be walls. You wouldnt need the small 4x8 tiles if you did.
Fair point: the walls on the borders of the demo tiles take up a lot of real estate and seem only to serve to limit tile combinations (though there might be other reasons for the walls that I haven't discovered).
I think if the walls form the left/right edges that only give two orientations up/down. If they free up all 4 edges the amount of combinations is expentionaly much larger!
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2 years ago ::
Sep 22, 2011 - 6:11PM
#39
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My 2 cents, as someone who bought a lot of minis, played DDM for years, and owns all of the new Wizards board games:
1. Please start painting the miniatures again. I know it costs more, but it hurts my soul that the new Jarlaxle miniature isn't a painted one. Peter, I know you're a master painter, but if you could see me paint a miniature, you'd understand why pre-painted miniatures was a god-send for people like me. Plus, I think to stay competitive with the other gaming companies who are releasing painted minis, you're going to have to paint the minis.
2. This tiles thing confuses me. I thought there were major reasons DDM switched from tiles to maps, mainly time and setup issues. The maps just seem so each and allow for quick, cheap variety.
3. I'm torn on flat vs. interconnected edges if you do go the tile route. I own A LOT of regular dungeon tiles. The fact that you might make me buy new sets with connectors on the sides rubs me the wrong way, even though I own the board games as well. If you're going to package and sell add-on tiles, they better be part of miniatures sets if they're not compatible with the dozens of dungeon tiles you've already released. I would think you have to make them flat-edged so they can be used in regular D&D games and the regular D&D tiles could be used in the skirmish game.
I kind of agree with dadocollin here, at least about issues #2 & #3. I personally don't like the idea of tiles in a "Miniatures" game. I tend to think of that as being more of a boardgame thing. Whereas I don't mind using tiles in the actually D&D Boardgames (like Legend of Drizzt) I still think of minis games = maps.
Example: I would prefer to see actual "paper" maps, OR the previous idea I had. Maybe envision something like the fold-out maps that are packaged with Memoir '44 or Battles of Napoleon.
As for how future fold-out map/tile hybrids would be packaged, I don't see why WotC couldn't swing something similar to what Gamemastery uses for their flip-mats. I just checked on my store's wall, and a Gamemastery Flip-Mat is 24x30, double-sided, and is only $12.99. I was thinking WotC could make a similar (but heavier) product, and possibly retail it for $19.99-$24.99. Obviously, my customers would like the lower MSRP, but for a nice solid map you could use for your regular D&D games? No contest in my opinion.
How's that idea?
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2 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2011 - 12:34PM
#40
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I would much prefer the tiles for the shear variability of the layouts. I would really not want to buy a skirmish game that only had one (or two if double-sided) layout to play in. Dreamblade gets around that by having a totally NON-skirmish skirmish game, but that was part of the theme. The only way I would want to accept poster-sized layouts would be if there were a LOT of them in game box. And I know WotC HAS a lot of them because I've got a fair number of them already. I like the idea of using pre-existing tiles for setting up skirmish layouts, as well as possibly dungeon-skirmish layouts. Sounds very cool actually. But loose tiles sliding around are a bit of a PITA. I would think that tiles that connect would be a much better solution, even if it means incompatability with existing tiles for either D&D or the new Adventure Board game tiles. I really think double-sided would be the way to go to give the consumers the most bang for the buck. However, making a tileset that works like that would require some sort of bowtie connector and if those are made of cardboard, they are gonna fail eventually. Still, I suppose if you made available a new set of connectors with every new set of tiles released, that would keep people happy. Of course, ONE reason I want to see standard sized tiles is that I'm looking forward to the HirstArts community making up 3D versions of them all!
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